The spike did not come sooner because fewer people were being tested. The tide started to turn very early June. That is when cases begin to rise and hot spots began to appear after a nationwide bottom out.
Quick Update: Gulf Coast COVID numbers
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He admits there would be breakthrough infections. He was saying the asymptomatic ones are extremely unlikely to transmit it and most will be asymptomatic. The last line is most important meaning he never said the vaccine would eradicate it.
"So even though there are breakthrough infections with vaccinated people, almost always the people are asymptomatic and the level of virus is so low it makes it extremely unlikely - not impossible but very, very low likelihood - that they're going to transmit it," Fauci said.
"When you get vaccinated, you not only protect your own health and that of the family but also you contribute to the community health by preventing the spread of the virus throughout the community," Fauci said. "In other words, you become a dead end to the virus. And when there are a lot of dead ends around, the virus is not going to go anywhere. And that's when you get a point that you have a markedly diminished rate of infection in the community.
Why would they all of a sudden start testing in June but not May? Anyway, the surges only started in the hottest areas and the lowest vaccinated areas in June. That tells me it didn’t have a ton to do with masks.
Did you read the preprint? And you're OK with it? Let's get it peer reviewed with some follow up.
Full vaccination suppresses SARS-CoV-2 delta variant mutation frequency
This study presents the first evidence that full vaccination against COVID-19 suppresses emergent mutations of SARS-CoV-2 delta variants. An evolution algorithm, Tajima’s D test with a threshold value as -2.50, can provide a promising tool to forecast new COVID-19 outbreaks. Question It remains...www.medrxiv.org
Not just masks. Gatherings, etc. Testing only happens when someone goes and requests a test. Also, it is interesting that testing was at it's lowest average level since April 2020 during the month of June 2021. Now testing increase is almost directly correlated to new cases.
It’s better than anything out there stating the opposite. The theory has even been shot down by the guy that did the “chicken” study. You’re so dug in that you’re going to need about 10 peer reviewed large studies.
Exactly. People have symptoms and they go get tested. They don’t wait a month. Why did other areas not start when the masks were lifted? Is it coincidence that the hottest areas and the lowest vaccinated areas started earlier and were hit harder?
We are all hoping and praying that it holds to form, and that what you describe, (i.e. the typical pattern where the more it mutates, the weaker it gets), does hold true to form. This thing is weird, but I certainly hope that's what happens, (come on mutations. Keep'um coming, as long as the virus is getting weaker/less deadly).
Are you talking about particular posters here promoting the theory that vaccines might make it worse, or other scientists and researchers? I only recall one poster here that's offered that opinion, and maybe one other that quoted him a time or two.
There are just a few on here but more elsewhere. When joe Rogan believes it, millions believe it. I linked the Rogan stuff.
I started railing over that back in May, and pointed out that it was REALLY bad science. I've taken a LOT of heat for it on these boards.
Hopefully, the leading agencies and authorities will learn and change the way they are going about/doing things so that we get through to the other side of this thing ASAP while making the BEST choices and decisions.
Going to a funeral Sat. for a friend from Destin who was too dang hard-headed/invincible to get vaxxed. Starting feeling badly Sat. Died on Tuesday. What is the proper protocol for attending a funeral now with this covid mess on the rise? Try to find a shady tree and view the funeral from a distance? IDK .......
Right now, it is about 50 to 1 or 2% to be hospitalized if getting Covid and unvaccinated. At least, that’s what a recent study shows.
Good post. And if our leaders would only go ahead and have them develop a 3rd option for a vaccine developed using tried and true, classical vaccine technology, (LAV or inactivated), I believe it's possible that a significant percentage of the 27% holding out, might jump all over it, and we'd really be in position to see if we will really be able to achieve herd immunity. Let's get it done!
I don't listen to him, but I guess I'll go back and find it to see what he's telling folks, (and also, to evaluate it objectively to see if I believe it has merit).
I don’t either. My nephew sent a clip to his dad. He sent to me saying I don’t know what to say. I then sent him this:
‘Joe Rogan Is Getting This Completely Wrong,’ Says The Scientist Who Conducted The Vaccine Study
“He's taking very careful work about evolutionary scenarios of the future, and from that, erroneously concluding that people should not be vaccinated now," says Andrew Read, professor of biology and entomology at Pennsylvania State University and author of the study.
www.forbes.com
It’s a horse dewormer btw. Who da fuq decided to try this? Lol (I hope the next study which is larger finds it’s a miracle drug to cure Covid)
Column: Major study of ivermectin, the anti-vaccine crowd's latest COVID drug, finds 'no effect whatsoever'
Ivermectin, touted as a treatment of COVID by the anti-vaccine crowd, has "no effect," according to a major study.www.google.com
It's not quite true to position it as a "horse de-wormer", but there is a lot of misinformation on various sites, (e.g. the FDA site, and factcheck.org etc.), where they put up pictures of horses under the Ivermectin heading, and position it as if quacks just decided to start using veterinary medicines on humans. Unfortunately, people are buying into it.
The truth is, it's been prescribed for humans for some time, and we have a ton of usage data. It's dirt cheap, and might really help in poorer countries where they don't have an abundance of cold-storage chains etc. IF it is proven to work, it can also help keep us from overrunning medical facilities the way @mrhickory and others are describing.
I makes you wonder why they'd go to the length of positioning it in this manner. Personally, I don't care WHERE help comes from. Repurposed drugs, new vaccines, herbal remedy or otherwise. I just want to be able to manage this pandemic in the most effective and efficient manner possible, with no agendas. I wish everyone involved had that desire.
Mrhickory isn’t a fan. He also said only 1 of 30 Dr’s prescribe it where he’s at.
I don’t either. My nephew sent a clip to his dad. He sent to me saying I don’t know what to say. I then sent him this:
‘Joe Rogan Is Getting This Completely Wrong,’ Says The Scientist Who Conducted The Vaccine Study
“He's taking very careful work about evolutionary scenarios of the future, and from that, erroneously concluding that people should not be vaccinated now," says Andrew Read, professor of biology and entomology at Pennsylvania State University and author of the study.
Man, thanks for the clip. I'm listening to Rogan now, but that article from Forbes is FULL of heavily slanted, misinformation that goes against current best understanding.
They blatantly state that ALL mutations are occurring in unvaccinated persons. I.e., 100% of mutations are occurring in the unvaccinated. This type of misinformation is just horrible, and is just as bad as misinformation from the "other side".
I'm VERY well aware of MrHickory's opinion on Ivermectin, and all of the rest of this pandemic that he's posted on. In addition, I essentially poll every other doctor, scientist or researcher that I have access too so that I have as many opinions as I can get to ensure objectivity and accuracy.
Most of them are LOCK step, but furthermore, those who go against the narrative/grain, are coming under tremendous peer pressure to conform, and many are being ostracized even if their ideas are solid.
I didn't like the way that was phrased either, but just after that was this part below, which makes it clear that variants in vaccinated are possible, even if much less common. There isn't really any issue here although it could have been more clear right from the start.
Could a variant evolve in vaccinated people?
Even though variants are more likely to emerge in unvaccinated people, a variant from a vaccinated person is still possible. Either way, the answer is vaccines. If a new variant emerges, “we can get second-generation vaccines,” Read accurately points out, as pharmaceutical companies are already developing boosters and second-generation vaccines. “There’s tons of things we can do in the future. Right now we need to vaccinate as much as possible.” He pauses, “I would be delighted, I have to say, to get to the point where the vast majority of the evolution that’s going on is in vaccinated people because there’s only vaccinated people around. If we get to that position in a year or something, we can keep a very good eye out on what evolution is happening. But right now the problem is the unvaccinated.”
Lol. It’s happening way more in the unvaccinated as there are way more of them. Bottom line was what he read was absolute bs that keeps getting cited.
Yep. Stick to the big picture, not how an article is worded. The bottom line is that theory is bs like almost everything anti-vax come out with. See the school board dude this week.
Big Blue, I thought you'd know where I was coming from. I'm not worried about people like you having the wool pulled over your eyes rather easily. But many in the general public who aren't as up to speed on the basics of the science behind it all, will read the first paragraph, and run with it. I do not feel that this type of phrasing/misinformation is mere happenstance. I believe it's intentional, and I see it everywhere and just wish we would consider a fair, balanced, and objective approach.
This is EXACTLY the type of (mis)communication that gave Johnny Q. Public the impression that the new vaccines provided sterilizing immunity, (in addition to the leading authorities out and out telling everyone they could abandon the best practices and stop social distancing, wearing masks etc.). Then, when the poop hit the fan, they just back-tracked and said, "We never gave that impression".
I just hate misinformation wherever it's coming from, because it's just wrong IMHO. It does far more harm than good in the long run in my opinion.
When POTUS is lying about the vaccine preventing infection you know you're not getting all of the information you need. Of course he also tells us that 350M Americans have been vaccinated....when there aren't 350M Americans....
Regardless, I think it's a little foolish not to get the vaccine at this point but to each their own.
Then we clear it up. Person by person, (which is what I do), but not by using BS misinformation, spin or manipulation, but instead by supplying truth and objective, balanced information.
I've ALWAYS been about the big picture, and not getting caught up in minutia, however, this isn't just a trivial quibble over wording Stomp. Here's an excerpt
"Let’s get super clear about this. Are variants occurring in vaccinated or unvaccinated people?"
“Evolution, at the moment, is all happening in the unvaccinated". That’s where the majority of cases are. That’s the majority of transmission. Every time a virus replicates, it can mutate. So the evolution is, right now, occurring in the body of people who are not vaccinated. Rogan is completely wrong trying to deduce anything else.”
Are you okay with them making those bolded, quoted statements in the answer to the question???
The opposite is true. You’re about the tiny details. Big picture is the vaccinated aren’t making mutations more deadly and the vaccinated make up way less of the mutations. Big picture.
Average for COVID vaccines where I am has gone from about 8-12 per day a month ago to about 36-42 a day. Probably 80% first doses with a lot of folks from traditionally vaccine wary populations. Did 149 over a three day span last week. Still solid numbers, but don't have the staff to do more.
This variant evolved in an unvaccinated population in India in December 2020. And at a time when only 1-2% of the world’s population had been vaccinated.
I know. I’m sick of the “but…but the vsccinated” crowd. All you have to look at it is if everybody in the US was vaccinated. Covid wouldn’t be squat imo with the current variants.
I can't wait to get my booster.
Literally 1% of the population means packed/full hospitals, people dying unnecessarily due to lack of resources, elective procedures being postponed, etc. it’s not all about *your* risk. In terms of public health, that’s a huge number.
How in the world can you say "the vaccinated aren't making mutations more deadly"???
We don't control mutations. They are random, and any host whatsoever allowing replication can contribute to new strains. Of course, the higher the viral load, the higher the contribution, but it's there nonetheless. If we aren't going to talk real science, and be honest, let's just end the dialogue. It's not honest to try and equivocate and play it off as a "tiny", insignificant detail.
Got it. Excuse some spin, and stacked, tilted (mis)information, (when it supports your chosen narrative), but jump on it with both feet and condemn it when it goes against your narrative.
We're back to the philosophical question of whether it's okay to operate to a "noble lie". I see the lack of integrity and use of deceit every time several opine on this topic.
Do not play dumb. Their entire theory is the vaccinations are making the mutations worse. Come on. Stop wasting my time explaining this.
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