Washington Nationals game postponed…

Stumpfan

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I don’t know the best terminology. Rapaport is more articulate than I am at getting my point across.
They have it figured out. They aren’t being honest. The problem is the honor system doesn’t work so they had to come up with a reason for everybody to wear a mask. Since it’s possible vaccinated can spread delta, they used it. They based it on a very weak study that hasn’t been reviewed and apparently used modeling. They should have just said that since businesses can’t decipher who is vaccinated, we want everybody to mask up in highly infected areas.
 
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au4life_rz

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I am as pro vaccine as anyone. I’m in the vaccine game. That’s absolutely not how it was positioned back in January. That is the new narrative. And that’s not a vaccine. Vaccines eradicated polio and small pox. What you are describing is a therapeutic..a treatment. That’s fine, but to build trust and get more people to take it, the narratives have absolutely got to stop changing.

You are absolutely correct about that being a new narrative. A changing of the goalposts. I pointed this out clearly in another thread today, and I had the usual crew go full on delusional and, tell me how the narrative wasn't new, and that's what the CDC and others have been saying all along. I had to go look in the mirror and make sure I hadn't bumped my head, or taken crazy pills. I even took a DIRECT quote out of one of the articles in question...still, no admission, and straight deniable with the quote staring them in the face.

I guess those setting the narratives/agendas, rely on folks hubris and this type of partisan "I won't budge, no matter the information", lie, lie, lie, fake news mentality. Folks are so caught up in delusional arguing, and not being wrong, that facts, logic and rationale no longer matter. Insert new goal post, and shift till you can't shift no more, (i.e. everyone playing that game is NEVER wrong in their own mind). It's so super sad, and lower's the prospects for this once great country, and mankind in general, #noHyperbole
 
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Stumpfan

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I am as pro vaccine as anyone. I’m in the vaccine game. That’s absolutely not how it was positioned back in January. That is the new narrative. And that’s not a vaccine. Vaccines eradicated polio and small pox. What you are describing is a therapeutic..a treatment. That’s fine, but to build trust and get more people to take it, the narratives have absolutely got to stop changing.
It’s 88% against symptomatic Covid. Isn’t the flu vaccine called a vaccine? Lol This efficacy is almost twice as high as that efficacy. Did you call that a treatment? Listen, just admit you’re against these vaccines. Tell us why you are personally.
 

au4life_rz

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People hear what they want to hear and get mad because they want to. That’s what you are doing. The information has to change because the situation keeps changing based on too many factors to even list. The one message that consistently never changes is get vaccinated and take a friend with you.

One of my chief complaints has been folks on these boards, (and especially the leading agencies), constantly lying/spinning, making DEFINITIVE statements that are essentially guarantees about the vaccine's safety, that we couldn't possibly know just yet.

I've asked innumerable people, "How can you say such and such, when we don't have the data/science just yet", or "Please qualify your statements as an opinion or guess instead of fact just to manipulate people into taking the vaccine". I constantly told everyone that we should EXPECT what we currently know to change, given how little we know about COVID and the new vaccines at this point. But I was ridiculed for pointing this out and they swore by every little article, release and statistic published.

Then, as soon as the CDC released the information yesterday saying fully vaccinated could spread COVID and carry high viral loads, the same people acted hypocritically and flipped and immediately started singing the song that "the information has to change, because we just received data that was new", (i.e. which was exactly what I was telling them we should EXPECT, and why they shouldn't be so insistent saying things like "these vaccines are 100%, and you can't maintain a viral load at all once you get them"). I mean, who knew that viruses could mutate. Evidently, not the CDC, the leading authorities, or the Vaxx-Drones on this board. It's disappointing, dishonest behavior.

It's unbelievably sad seeing what should be relatively intelligent folks operating in this manner. The "fake news" zeitgeist is in full effect.
 
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ReelandAU

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I am as pro vaccine as anyone. I’m in the vaccine game. That’s absolutely not how it was positioned back in January. That is the new narrative. And that’s not a vaccine. Vaccines eradicated polio and small pox. What you are describing is a therapeutic..a treatment. That’s fine, but to build trust and get more people to take it, the narratives have absolutely got to stop changing.

A-****ing-men.....the goal posts HAVE to stop shifting.
 
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Stumpfan

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One of my chief complaints has been folks on these boards, and especially the leading agencies, constantly making DEFINITIVE statements, giving what are essentially guarantees, and stating things about the new vaccine's safety that we can't possibly know just yet.

I've asked innumerable people, "How can you say such and such, when we don't have the data/science just yet", or "Please qualify your statements as an opinion or guess instead of fact, just to manipulate people into taking the vaccine". Yet, I've been ridiculed for saying such things, and telling everyone that we should EXPECT things to change given how little we know about COVID, and the new vaccines at this point.

Yet, as soon as the CDC released the information that they did yesterday, everyone is singing the song that "the information has to change, because we just received info that was new", (i.e. exactly what I'd been saying all along). It's unbelievably sad seeing what should be relatively intelligent folks operating in this manner. The "fake news" zeitgeist is in full effect.
The science didn’t change yesterday. There’s a reason the cdc is getting roasted today by both sides. There was nothing new and I told you that yesterday.
 

ReelandAU

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If you know someone on a vent who is fully vaccinated, you know of something very, very rare. Like 1% rare after vaccination.

Also, we won’t go back to any sort of lockdown. Take a look at the UK. They had Wimbley filled to the brim for the UK/Italy final a few weeks ago, in the middle of a case surge.

Look at these charts from the UK as well. First is COVID cases and second is deaths. Case count peaked close to the deadly winter they had (now going down). Now consider that the DELTA variant is 100% more contagious than the winter strain, yet the case count with this surge is still lower than the winter surge, and they really haven’t seen an uptick in deaths, or at least anything significant in comparison to their last surge.

This vaccine is working, and anyone who refuses to believe it is just simply too prideful to admit it.


k0E7quh.png

ua5gfvi.png

True. If you got the shot, good for you. End of story. Also, maybe natural immunity / not catching it ( due to a myriad of reasons) is also in play. End of story. Go about your life and live it, the best you can, without clawing at each other's throats for a ****ing "vaccine" / treatment. Life is too damn short not too.
 
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au4life_rz

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Sure, I get that, but do you get up in arms every year about the flu vaccine being called a vaccine like you have with the COVID-19 vaccine? Also, they advertised this vaccine having a 95% efficacy against the original strains of COVID-19, not Delta. That’s because clinical trials had it 95% after 3 months.

Why is this technicality a hill so many are willing to die on?

The fact that all of the advertised hyperbole and propaganda didn't apply to variants, is even more to my point as to why all of you shouldn't have been pushing all of the marketing hype and stating the advertisements as facts. I've been referring to them as marketing tricks. If you knew variants could invalidate the grandiose claims, (ne promises), which were stated as definitive fact, then you shouldn't have been putting them out there as unqualified statements.

To come now and say, "but, but, that doesn't apply to variants" is equivocation, goal post shifting and pure excuse making. To my original point, it's irresponsible to essentially lie, and say something if you knew there was a chance things could change. I've told all of the vocal Vaxx-Drones, that we were likely to encounter curveballs, and that we should expect them. It's a case in point as to why we shouldn't spout these 99.x% "miracle" misinformation type statements as rock solid fact.

Now, the same folks are using hypocritically using the Delta curveball as an excuse. Hopefully, lessons will be learned, so that we can do better and get through this thing as quickly as possible, and in the best shape that is possible. Just be honest.
 
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Hornacious

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Covid. Not that I care because I don’t like baseball, but 12 players + staff tested positive, only 1 of 12 was unvaccinated.
The vaccines are a lie. Fauck the experimental mRNA shit.

Got the J&J today even if it's least effective.
 
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Hornacious

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Sure, I get that, but do you get up in arms every year about the flu vaccine being called a vaccine like you have with the COVID-19 vaccine? Also, they advertised this vaccine having a 95% efficacy against the original strains of COVID-19, not Delta. That’s because clinical trials had it 95% after 3 months.

Why is this technicality a hill so many are willing to die on?
I get up in arms about the government saying an ineffective Rona vaccine is required to return to normal but do not say the same about the flu vaccine.

The government doesn't know a damn thing other than it financed the rona virus to be created.

EDIT: They probably do know a lot but lies to the world.
 
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Hornacious

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Not sure about Covid positivity, but my vaccinated ass went to the Flora-Bama tonight so I’m positive you can add me to the vaccinated and feels like hell category tomorrow morning.
The parents on our kid's softball team are experiencing a big outbreak after being in GS for a tournament. All that are positive had the vaccine. I shared drinks and food with these folks and tested negative today.

One mom had a heart transplant and is also type1 diabetic. Said she had a headache for 2 days and her food tasted funny. She feels fine today 4 days after her positive test.


I took the J&J today though.
 
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Powerman26

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They have it figured out. They aren’t being honest. The problem is the honor system doesn’t work so they had to come up with a reason for everybody to wear a mask. Since it’s possible vaccinated can spread delta, they used it. They based it on a very weak study that hasn’t been reviewed and apparently used modeling. They should have just said that since businesses can’t decipher who is vaccinated, we want everybody to mask up in highly infected areas.
@gatorz1209 Stump says the authorities are telling lies. He thinks it’s for our own good. I know the public sees through the inconsistencies and it hurts the vaccination effort.
 

hsvtiger34

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One of my chief complaints has been folks on these boards, and especially the leading agencies, constantly making DEFINITIVE statements, giving what are essentially guarantees, and stating things about the new vaccine's safety that we can't possibly know just yet.

I've asked innumerable people, "How can you say such and such, when we don't have the data/science just yet", or "Please qualify your statements as an opinion or guess instead of fact, just to manipulate people into taking the vaccine". Yet, I've been ridiculed for saying such things, and telling everyone that we should EXPECT things to change given how little we know about COVID, and the new vaccines at this point.

Yet, as soon as the CDC released the information that they did yesterday, everyone is singing the song that "the information has to change, because we just received info that was new", (i.e. exactly what I'd been saying all along). I mean, who knew that viruses could mutate. Evidently, not the CDC, the leading authorities, and Vaxx-Drones on this board, (LOL!).

It's unbelievably sad seeing what should be relatively intelligent folks operating in this manner. The "fake news" zeitgeist is in full effect.
Every damn thing regarding this virus on the Bunker, minus personal experience, is an opinion. It’s either the opinion of the poster or the opinion of a source whose nuts they cup. Not a got-damn person on here can definitively say shit about what’s going on. They just read the tripe they want to read and regurgitate it here. It’s what’s keeps the Bunker from being a dangerous source of misinformation…none of it is believable!
 

au4life_rz

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Every damn thing regarding this virus on the Bunker, minus personal experience, is an opinion. It’s either the opinion of the poster or the opinion of a source whose nuts they cup. Not a got-damn person on here can definitively say shit about what’s going on. They just read the tripe they want to read and regurgitate it here. It’s what’s keeps the Bunker from being a dangerous source of misinformation…none of it is believable!

It's sad, but just look around. Some of the chief sources of misinformation are still running around lying, trying to make it appear that they were "right" all along. Truly crazy, dishonest behavior. When you see that type of out and out delusion, it's scary.
 
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gatorz1209

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True. If you got the shot, good for you. End of story. Also, maybe natural immunity / not catching it ( due to a myriad of reasons) is also in play. End of story. Go about your life and live it, the best you can, without clawing at each other's throats for a ****ing "vaccine" / treatment. Life is too damn short not too.
I don’t think anyone is clawing at my throat ITT nor am I doing that to them. Chill out, cletus
 

gatorz1209

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The fact that all of the advertised hyperbole and propaganda didn't apply to variants, is even more to my point as to why all of you shouldn't have been pushing all of the marketing hype and stating the advertisements as facts. I've been referring to them as marketing tricks. If you knew variants could invalidate the grandiose claims, (ne promises), which were stated as definitive fact, then you shouldn't have been putting them out there as unqualified statements.

To come now and say, "but, but, that doesn't apply to variants" is equivocation, goal post shifting and pure excuse making. To my original point, it's irresponsible to essentially lie, and say something if you knew there was a chance things could change. I've told all of the vocal Vaxx-Drones, that we were likely to encounter curveballs, and that we should expect them. It's a case in point as to why we shouldn't spout these 99.x% "miracle" misinformation type statements as rock solid fact.

Now, the same folks are using hypocritically using the Delta curveball as an excuse. Hopefully, lessons will be learned, so that we can do better and get through this thing as quickly as possible, and in the best shape that is possible. Just be honest.
Not reading all of that because I simply don’t have the time today, but thank you for your reply. They didn’t advertise percentages against variants because there were no variants of concern at the time of clinical trials.
 

gatorz1209

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I get up in arms about the government saying an ineffective Rona vaccine is required to return to normal but do not say the same about the flu vaccine.

The government doesn't know a damn thing other than it financed the rona virus to be created.

EDIT: They probably do know a lot but lies to the world.
Show me where the vaccine is ineffective and I’ll show you where it is.
 

hsvtiger34

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It's sad, but just look around. Some of the chief sources of misinformation are still running around lying, trying to make it appear that they were "right" all along. Truly crazy, dishonest behavior. When you see that type of out and out delusion, it's scary.
I listen to a UK podcast. Documents were found in the UK and Germany regarding the nudge theory they were using to control peoples behavior. Governments were purposely increasing the perceived threat, which increased people’s anxiety but got many to act the way they wanted. What will be the end result of this fear and anxiey? They DGAF.
 
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AUMonkeyBoy

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Sounds like the vaccine did its job. My wife and parents are positive right now and have had 1-2 days of mild symptoms. Of note, they all had Pfizer, I had Moderna. I’m negative and still working.
We’re these the 3 you referred to in another thread that all had Pfizer?
 

au4life_rz

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Not reading all of that because I simply don’t have the time today, but thank you for your reply. They didn’t advertise percentages against variants because there were no variants of concern at the time of clinical trials.

Your response, (and the responses and reaction of the others), speaks VOLUMES. It's truly sad indeed.

I'm just glad that others are seeing it, and seeing what you guys are all about, (and it certainly isn't good science, good data or especially TRUTH).
 

gatorz1209

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It's sad, but just look around. Some of the chief sources of misinformation are still running around lying, trying to make it appear that they were "right" all along. Truly crazy, dishonest behavior. When you see that type of out and out delusion, it's scary.
You hinted at the spike being planned the other day. Come on, dude. Those who lives in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
 

gatorz1209

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Your response, (and the responses and reaction of the others), speaks VOLUMES. It's truly sad indeed.

I'm just glad that others are seeing it, and seeing what you guys are all about, (and it certainly isn't good science, good data or especially TRUTH).
You’re starting to get angry, simply because of an effective vaccine, and I don’t understand why. Are you going to argue even against the doctors on this board?
 

au4life_rz

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You hinted at the spike being planned the other day. Come on, dude. Those who lives in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

More partisan sophomoric pitty-pat put out to deflect instead of being a man, and having the integrity to say, "I was wrong". We're ALL wrong at times, and it shouldn't be a big deal. But when a man won't budge after being faced with direct facts, he is dangerous indeed. Full on delusion that's part of this entire mentality where people create their own realities as to who and what they are. I think I'll call it "pronouning".
 
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au4life_rz

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You’re starting to get angry, simply because of an effective vaccine, and I don’t understand why. Are you going to argue even against the doctors on this board?

Not at all. But you are following your leader Stomp, and word for word, and action for action co-opting the routine that he's taught all of his acolytes.

The new vaccines are all super effective, (and the mRNA's are off the charts with their short term effectiveness). That has NEVER been in question, (and neither has the short term safety). Those are all very poor strawmen and attempts at deflection, the same as you last sentence. Again, it's all on display for everyone to see. You guys that use the stupid partisan pissing matching techniques to "debate" are bringing that stupidity over into other topics, and it will NOT get us any closer to solutions and better understandings. You're faced with truth or solid points, and you throw mud and feces to distract, then deny, deny, deny, until you die.

Please allow those who are serious and trying to approach this hot topic like adults, to conduct an intelligent discourse so that we can try to move the ship forward in meaningful ways.
 

gatorz1209

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More partisan sophomoric pitty-pat put out to deflect instead of being a man, and having the integrity to say, "I was wrong". We're ALL wrong at times, and it shouldn't be a big deal. But when a man won't budge after being faced with direct facts, he is dangerous indeed. Full on delusion that's part of this entire mentality where people create their own realities as to who and what they are. I think I'll call it "pronouning".
How was I wrong again? And if you want to be petty, saying I’m not a “man”, then that’s fine. You think it comes across impressive, but coincidentally enough it actually comes across as sophomoric and haughty.

And if you want to challenge me on being unable to budge, that’s fine. I was all in on downplaying this virus in 2020. I didn’t think it was a big deal, thought the government was trying to control the masses, thought this whole thing was planned like you do, etc. Now I realize this isn’t some hoax, which came the hard way when a few healthy friends popped positive and spent weeks at a time in the hospital. I’ve listened to enough and seen enough to know these vaccines are safe and very effective.

So if you want to say that I can’t admit I’m wrong, that’s fine. It’s far from the truth, but it’s still fine.
 

gatorz1209

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Not at all. But you are following your leader Stomp, and word for word, and action for action co-opting the routine that he's taught all of his acolytes.

The new vaccines are all super effective, (and the mRNA's are off the charts with their short term effectiveness). That has NEVER been in question, (and neither has the short term safety). Those are all very poor strawmen and attempts at deflection, the same as you last sentence. Again, it's all on display for everyone to see. You guys that use the stupid partisan pissing matching techniques to "debate" are bringing that stupidity over into other topics, and it will NOT get us any closer to solutions and better understandings. You're faced with truth or solid points, and you throw mud and feces to distract, then deny, deny, deny, until you die.

Please allow those who are serious and trying to approach this hot topic like adults, to conduct an intelligent discourse so that we can try to move the ship forward in meaningful ways.
@Stumpfan and I are far from alignment on A TON. He and I went back and forth a couple weeks ago on politics, which was far from the first time that happened. We are on the opposite ends of the spectrum in that area. But we see nuance in this pandemic, which is far and few between these days, unfortunately.

Now, I find it funny you’re accusing me of using a straw man argument, when you’re greatest point in this whole ongoing discussion revolves around the “unknown”. Talk about a straw man. You don’t actually bring data. So who’s using a straw man argument again?
 
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au4life_rz

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@Stumpfan and I are far from alignment on A TON. He and I went back and forth a couple weeks ago on politics, which was far from the first time that happened. We are on the opposite ends of the spectrum in that area. But we see nuance in this pandemic, which is far and few between these days, unfortunately.

Now, I find it funny you’re accusing me of using a straw man argument, when you’re greatest point in this whole ongoing discussion revolves around the “unknown”. Talk about a straw man. You don’t actually bring data. So who’s using a straw man argument again?

No, my friend. You've misgauged that too.

My primary point is about using an approach built on openness, honesty and full disclosure. I do NOT believe using deceit, dishonesty and marketing tricks to be the best approach. Unfortunately, most choose to follow the established narrative that incorporates those things. They've been convinced that operating to a "nobel lie" is the way to go. I humbly disagree.
 

gatorz1209

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No, my friend. You've misgauged that too.

My primary point is about using an approach built on openness, honesty and full disclosure. I do NOT believe using deceit, dishonesty and marketing tricks to be the best approach. Unfortunately, most choose to follow the established narrative that incorporates those things. They've been convinced that operating to a "nobel lie" is the way to go. I humbly disagree.
Tell me where I use deceit and dishonesty, then we can go further. Or are you referring to the vaccine manufacturers? They’ve confirmed the vaccine doesn’t posses the same efficacy against the Delta, which is a big reason they feel it’s necessary to roll out a poster for protection against it.
 

au4life_rz

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Tell me where I use deceit and dishonesty, then we can go further. Or are you referring to the vaccine manufacturers? They’ve confirmed the vaccine doesn’t posses the same efficacy against the Delta, which is a big reason they feel it’s necessary to roll out a poster for protection against it.

I'm referring to the guiding entities and leading agencies, and really to a lessor degree, everyone that buys in and follow the approach that operating to a "nobel lie" is the best way to get folks to take the vaccines. Don't be open, honest, and inform them with balanced information, but instead, use hook, crook, deceit and marketing tricks.

Many of you chose to come here daily and repeat the spun propaganda, but when someone presents a cogent argument, or facts, you deny, run and deflect...rinse and repeat. That does NOT facilitate intelligent discourse, and this thing is serious. We should all be contributing our two cents as a means of putting our heads together to understand the best means of moving forward towards resolution.

Even after the weird announcement yesterday, (after I'd been humbly pointing that out as a potential risk for months, and being constantly ridiculed for it), not a single person who scoffed at the idea, admitted that it'd come to fruition, (even if it's later rebuffed). At any rate, there are repeated examples that show folks are more interested in "winning" a silly partisan style internet board pissing match, and "not being wrong", than they are kicking around rocks in hopes of helping to inform everyone with BALANCED info, an somehow possibly getting us closer to a resolution for the weird little beast of a pathogen. It's truly sad that our country has eroded to this point. Noble lies, fake news twitter battling, and zero integrity.
 

gatorz1209

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I'm referring to the guiding entities and leading agencies, and really to a lessor degree, everyone that buys in and follow the approach that operating to a "nobel lie" is the best way to get folks to take the vaccines. Don't be open, honest, and inform them with balanced information, but instead, use hook, crook, deceit and marketing tricks.

Many of you chose to come here daily and repeat the spun propaganda, but when someone presents a cogent argument, or facts, you deny, run and deflect...rinse and repeat. That does NOT facilitate intelligent discourse, and this thing is serious. We should all be contributing our two cents as a means of putting our heads together to understand the best means of moving forward towards resolution.

Even after the weird announcement yesterday, (after I'd been humbly pointing that out as a potential risk for months, and being constantly ridiculed for it), not a single person who scoffed at the idea, admitted that it'd come to fruition, (even if it's later rebuffed). At any rate, there are repeated examples that show folks are more interested in "winning" a silly partisan style internet board pissing match, and "not being wrong", than they are kicking around rocks in hopes of helping to inform everyone with BALANCED info, an somehow possibly getting us closer to a resolution for the weird little beast of a pathogen. It's truly sad that our country has eroded to this point. Noble lies, fake news twitter battling, and zero integrity.
You say “many of you spin propaganda” but not sure if you’re lumping me in on this, although I don’t really care, because I only work with data. For instance, here’s some data that no nay sayer has been able to refute.
k0E7quh.png

ua5gfvi.png
 

au4life_rz

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You say “many of you spin propaganda” but not sure if you’re lumping me in on this, although I don’t really care, because I only work with data. For instance, here’s some data that no nay sayer has been able to refute.

I'm not a "naysayer", (unless you're referring to the chosen agendas and narratives), but there's no doubt we need to manage this July surge, (similar to the surge this time last year???). The question is, what's the best way to go about doing it, and therein lies most of the debate.
 

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