Actual Data Showing Trends of People Shot to Death by da Police
- Thread starter JRinATL1
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But where is the outrage. It’s thousands of deaths we should be trying to save not the tiny fraction caused by cops
"but blacks kill other blacks" is a deflection for people who refuse to open their mind to the bigger picture.
everyone knows black on black crime is a major issue. healing societal and racial inequities would help with that but that's too much to put on some people's brains. merely seeking an understanding so we can find a way to fix things = just making excuses to the obtuse
i 100% agree it's a problem...which is why i care about how we get people out of life situations where they kill each other at such a rate. and merely pointing at stats to further the notion that blacks are more likely to be criminals just makes the vicious cycle continue
You are much too old to be one of my kids but I tell them the best way to start is from within. Your actions and decisions make a ripple movement outward. One suggestion I try to make to my kids is these or our communities. Not black communities, white communities, Asian communities etc. It is hard for anybody to have empathy for you if you do not consider them part of your community. We discuss too much about races and not enough about people.
This is our classroom and it is not a black classroom The redneck idiots are just as important to all of us as is people that don't play in the mud and have mullets. We all have to do our job if we are going to succeed and if we don't we all will lose. I think some of these communities may be having a problem with separating communities into cops and citizens and the two do not trust each other.
Not at all, this type of crap is not helpful in any shape or form. This is just as bad as those that paint all cops as racists..stop it.
If I’m reading correctly, you’re saying that for systemic racism to exist, it has to be written down in definable rules that single out minorities.
Bottom line, we disagree. That has been established for a while. I’m not interested in trying to convince you you’re wrong and I can assure you you want convince me, I am.
I’m going to step away from this discussion at this point. I fear if we go much further, you will accuse me of being racist as you have in the past.
You have an excellent day.
I actually think there has been some good discussion in this thread. Good job by all really.
I will say what I think the real issue is so everyone can thump me for it.
I am a white male and as you can imagine have been my entire life. I grew up poorish not really poor like some of the people I hung out with but not rich like some of the others either. We had food but things were always tight and we didn't get fancy cars, vacations, etc. We pretty much lived. Now when it came time for college I got an ROTC scholarship and went to school. I served in the Military and have made my own way in life.
My issue these days is that as a white male my voice is rarely ever heard. Everyone thinks I have been given everything in life. No one gives me credit for the hard work I put in and if I dare to suggest that others could put in hard work and get what they want I am a racist. So I look at what is going on now and once again I am told that my life doesn't matter only Black Lives Matter. I am told to even suggest that my life matters as well makes me a you guessed it racist.
Well I have lived my entire life being inclusive without regard to race. Guess what now I am a racist for being inclusive because I don't believe we should look at race.
So my opinion isnt desired, my voice on issues when given is ignored and my life isnt worth as much as others. Now I wonder why people feel left out of this movement? What if we had a movement on police brutality and said we wanted to be inclusive of all races and go after the brutality itself? OOh wait a minute, I know, its because that would be racist to include other races in the cause.
The issue is we are calling people that can help racist for existing and most folks don't like being called something they are not so they just move on and care a lot less. You want change then be inclusive of all people because segregating out one minority group and saying all others are wrong is the actual problem.
I will say what I think the real issue is so everyone can thump me for it.
I am a white male and as you can imagine have been my entire life. I grew up poorish not really poor like some of the people I hung out with but not rich like some of the others either. We had food but things were always tight and we didn't get fancy cars, vacations, etc. We pretty much lived. Now when it came time for college I got an ROTC scholarship and went to school. I served in the Military and have made my own way in life.
My issue these days is that as a white male my voice is rarely ever heard. Everyone thinks I have been given everything in life. No one gives me credit for the hard work I put in and if I dare to suggest that others could put in hard work and get what they want I am a racist. So I look at what is going on now and once again I am told that my life doesn't matter only Black Lives Matter. I am told to even suggest that my life matters as well makes me a you guessed it racist.
Well I have lived my entire life being inclusive without regard to race. Guess what now I am a racist for being inclusive because I don't believe we should look at race.
So my opinion isnt desired, my voice on issues when given is ignored and my life isnt worth as much as others. Now I wonder why people feel left out of this movement? What if we had a movement on police brutality and said we wanted to be inclusive of all races and go after the brutality itself? OOh wait a minute, I know, its because that would be racist to include other races in the cause.
The issue is we are calling people that can help racist for existing and most folks don't like being called something they are not so they just move on and care a lot less. You want change then be inclusive of all people because segregating out one minority group and saying all others are wrong is the actual problem.
How is it deflection when police are mostly present for those crimes, which is the discussion at hand? I'm really trying to be civil and understand what you're trying to say, you're just leaving off major variables/common sense in this discussion here.
What is either side, I don't want anyone to die...I would love for their to be peace in this world but as I've said 10 times now, evil doesn't have a badge or a skin color. You're accusing me of not close minded, but you're not looking at how complex this issue is and just looking at "cops kill blacks at a high rate therefore all cops are bad".
What is your solution. I believe cops need to be tougher, prison needs to be harsher, sentences longer. We need to bulldoze all abandoned buildings. Graffiti and trash need to be cleaned. Parents not sending kids to school should be punished. Kids not on track to graduate should be sent to special schools. No one Over 19 should be in ph Lux school. I have ideas that are actionable. Not just let’s all hug
Um, unlike you I've actually done ride alongs with MPD, multiple times(and have had talks with my cousin that is a lieutenant for Miami Dade police Dept) , I also have had discussions about this over the years with many of my fellow black coworkers and friends as to how they are treated by police, I understand a lot more than you think I do...you're just throwing rocks in a pond on the internet.
I do not take offense at people saying what they think I said because they are not lying. It just may not be what I intended to get across. I am a numbers guy so systemic means it has to be a pattern that holds all the time.
Like the rules for solving an equation. It has to be a pattern that works in all situations. Kids will find something they think works because it fits that one situation but does not really work on all situations. This is important to me because I have to come up with solutions so a pattern must be found that gets a solution that works all the time.
There is for sure racism, no one can deny that. Talking with my LEO friends, the problem is usually not RACE, it's about respect for authority. People that do not respect police officers get treated more poorly than people that do.
A lot of people, including Bunkerites, listen to rap music. Just pick any top-selling rap song at random and read the lyrics. Most of them involve killing someone, or bullying them with a gun. Millions of young people, of all colors, listen to this constantly. Someone with a father in their household and discipline in their life probably would not act out because of song lyrics. But kids without any direction are much more likely to.
A lot of people will roll their eyes, but glorifying murder in almost every song you listen to will many times lead to the exact behavior we are seeing today.
A lot of people, including Bunkerites, listen to rap music. Just pick any top-selling rap song at random and read the lyrics. Most of them involve killing someone, or bullying them with a gun. Millions of young people, of all colors, listen to this constantly. Someone with a father in their household and discipline in their life probably would not act out because of song lyrics. But kids without any direction are much more likely to.
A lot of people will roll their eyes, but glorifying murder in almost every song you listen to will many times lead to the exact behavior we are seeing today.
Well, we were in an argument and you said, “you may be the most racist person I’ve encountered. You believe people should be treated differently because of their color”.
I’m not sure, maybe I misinterpreted your intent.
Again, you have a great day!
This time 1000There is for sure racism, no one can deny that. Talking with my LEO friends, the problem is usually not RACE, it's about respect for authority. People that do not respect police officers get treated more poorly than people that do.
A lot of people, including Bunkerites, listen to rap music. Just pick any top-selling rap song at random and read the lyrics. Most of them involve killing someone, or bullying them with a gun. Millions of young people, of all colors, listen to this constantly. Someone with a father in their household and discipline in their life probably would not act out because of song lyrics. But kids without any direction are much more likely to.
A lot of people will roll their eyes, but glorifying murder in almost every song you listen to will many times lead to the exact behavior we are seeing today.
I actually think there has been some good discussion in this thread. Good job by all really.
I will say what I think the real issue is so everyone can thump me for it.
I am a white male and as you can imagine have been my entire life. I grew up poorish not really poor like some of the people I hung out with but not rich like some of the others either. We had food but things were always tight and we didn't get fancy cars, vacations, etc. We pretty much lived. Now when it came time for college I got an ROTC scholarship and went to school. I served in the Military and have made my own way in life.
My issue these days is that as a white male my voice is rarely ever heard. Everyone thinks I have been given everything in life. No one gives me credit for the hard work I put in and if I dare to suggest that others could put in hard work and get what they want I am a racist. So I look at what is going on now and once again I am told that my life doesn't matter only Black Lives Matter. I am told to even suggest that my life matters as well makes me a you guessed it racist.
Well I have lived my entire life being inclusive without regard to race. Guess what now I am a racist for being inclusive because I don't believe we should look at race.
So my opinion isnt desired, my voice on issues when given is ignored and my life isnt worth as much as others. Now I wonder why people feel left out of this movement? What if we had a movement on police brutality and said we wanted to be inclusive of all races and go after the brutality itself? OOh wait a minute, I know, its because that would be racist to include other races in the cause.
The issue is we are calling people that can help racist for existing and most folks don't like being called something they are not so they just move on and care a lot less. You want change then be inclusive of all people because segregating out one minority group and saying all others are wrong is the actual problem.
It is very difficult to discuss race without including race in the discussion. They thing is over weight people are more likely to die early than probably any other group. So should we all start identifying ourselves by our weight. Until we can get individuals to ignore race at all possible times we will not come together. They were doing this at the protests when they were hurling insults at police officers. It was protesters vs. cops.
The racial problems get exasperated when discussing them because we start trying to use statistics to fit our perceptions. Then you get images of people who are killed playing a million times and you think it is happening daily. So the thing is how can we become color blind? We use identity groups all the time to try and gain power by numbers. The LBGTQ etc. is one of the most abused group in the world but none of us would even care if we had a neighbor that came to join our community. The large sweeping generalizations are usually not true and definitely on the individual level.
my solution would start with more white people understanding the plight of black people in this country
we all start day 1 the same...but there are factors at play that have led us to the disproportionate crime rates we see...if we eliminate the factors we can control it would be a major step in the right direction. there will always be bad apples but let's give everyone a fair shake from day 1
doing that will take lots of cleanup though...decades of creating obstacles for success for black people has snowballed into the skewed crime statistics we see today...statistics that can't be argued but can be fixed
do not come back at me with an anecdote about how hard life was for certain whites b/c i don't think all whites have it easy. white people face all kinds of struggles, but i can go very in depth about how those struggles are different and easier to overcome than they are for black people as a whole.
This is wonderful and I agree, for the average white citizen in the US, like both of us, we absolutely need to further understand the struggle blacks in this country have to deal with...but a police officer doesn't GAF about how hard a person's life if/when they are called into a scene and make the decision to use force.
There was no intent because I doubt you would ever treat someone differently based solely on race.
I usually point out how absurd something sounds with an absurdity in the other direction. It is like the leaders of our country talking about systemic racism exists but they have been in charge for a long time.
Take Cuomo who irritates me to hell but how can he talk about systemic racism and not call himself a racist. He is in charge so he must be instituting it. It is just hard for me to have much faith in a man who says he knows that their is systemic racism and he profited from it. That is the height of hypocrisy.
That being said, I don't think I would trust him to do right like I trust all of you, when I met him I would not think he was evil. There are a couple on here who are consumed with injustices they see but you can tell they are going to help people when the time comes. I just wish I could see that from the people who profit from bringing up our problems that are put in their position to fix them.
I am not sure that is actually true. We have avenues for success but they might be difficult. The thing is we get these giant sweeping generalizations that just have no solution. It is like you are saying we want you to treat us differently because we are being blocked a path to success. Who is we, and who is you?
All people have different struggles. Some are born with no arms , some are born in actual poor countries. No one in America is that poor. We are all responsible for ourselves. No person alive today can use excuses from yesterday. By allowing people to blame others you doom them forever. Personal responsibility is the answer.
people have to quit saying "you just don't get it" when confronted with another viewpoint or a piece of data they cant explain......this is what happened to Drew Brees as well......Make and defend your point of view and refute the data if it is false....don't just say "you just don't get it" that does nothing
Interesting discussion. Necessary and I hope it helps - but for many the impact of slavery and hundreds of years of racism ended in the 1960s and they believe all are playing on a level field today. I thought Emmanuel Acho had a great discussion he posted on Twitter discussing these issues.
i'm confused by your response sorry
i don't want people treated differently though...just the same.
in general i totally agree with you...i hate that actually b/c it just pushes someone away from understanding
i had to say it to rice b/c he was just putting words in my mouth and was refusing to even attempt to see my viewpoint
I protest systematic racism too. I have no personal experience with it, but I have no reason to deny it's existence.
What is the solution and how does this activity move us towards that solution?
If the manifestation is the way that AA are treated by the police, I'm not sure that is systemic. The training and policies and laws, the 'systems', do not support what they are doing. I suppose the way that the system gives preference and the benefit of the doubt to the police is systemic, but it's not racist. Everyone without money gets eaten alive by the system.
What we have is a class war, not a race war. As always, we should be following the money.
I think most somewhat believe that but I am not sure. Many of the cops who are abusive have the same interaction with everybody. This cop that had complaints filed on him did not look like the type who cared what color someone was. He was just going to punish who ever did not comply quickly enough for him.
I think we do have mostly the same treatment from law enforcement. They are just more likely to get in a confrontation in poor neighborhoods than they do a rich neighborhood. Not race related it is community related.
Pure irony here...serious question, have you TRIED to understand this situation from the viewpoint of law enforcement? I have, many times. You seem very one sided in this discussion...
Or having a family unit which includes a father. Who's "systemic fault is this?
That’s untrue you just said you want me to see thing from the blacks point of view. That’s as racist as it get. I know you didn’t mean it that way. Those who use color as an excuse are not someone I would associate with
i don't have a single bad word to say about law enforcement and you can scan the entire thread if you'd like...that's your defense mechanism causing you to think i don't care about this situation through the lens of law enforcement. i happen to believe many of the things i have said would make life much easier on them.
i 100% support the police as i have already stated ITT
So the answer to my question is no. Ok then. I guess we'll just agree to disagree. It's not a defense mechanism when you see things that officers go through on a nightly basis, even in non threatening situations.
to understand another color or cultures point of view is racist? i don't know how you come to that conclusion. it seems like the opposite.
Have you ever been stationed over seas. I can promise you were you located would change your impression of a local community and put it on the whole country. Those things matter. So we want to try and make our communities more inclusive. Had some stupid ass announcer say I am from a black neighborhood that is fifty fifty. What no white people there. He is in a rich neighborhood that has nothing in common with the neighborhood Mr Floyd lived in.
So I understand banks using red lining because of the area the person lives. You do not that if you live in a trailer park with high crime you will have serious trouble getting that loan. So the system is not racist but there might be people who are caught in they system who are one race or another.
