Exactly. We never will. You don’t know what it’s like to be black so just listen to OP
just listen dude
I feel as a Black Male in America
- Thread starter KILLAKONG
- Start date
just listen dude
It's a generalization, sure. IMO, it's very difficult to have these conversations without being somewhat overly generalizing. There's always a minority that doesn't fit into an argument. But I think the gist of the statement is true. IMO no matter the wealth or situation, if you put a black person and a white person in the exact same life, the black person will have more difficulty in life than the white person. If you replaced me with a black kid in my life, I think his life would've been much different than mine, and that's what I got from the quote.
@KILLAKONG, I think you are partially right, and I think that fear becomes an obstacle for closing the gap. People are so scared to have the conversation, that they just avoid it.
HInt to America....don't have the conversation on social media. Sit down with someone, face to face.
I think this is a huge part of the problem: the media beats the drum 24/7 that "you are a victim", "you are being treated badly", "racism is everywhere", "black men everywhere are being killed", and then, lo and behold, people walk around on edge. Identity politics is hurting people.
Rational conversations based on actual data need to take place, regardless of where that data take us.
This is very true in my experience. I've been gone from GA/AL for 20+ years, but the moment I return, the hostility is immediately palpable from most blacks that I encounter. (See my Wal-Mart story earlier in this thread.)
Here in TX, there are way fewer blacks (but way more Hispanics). The attitude of black people here is noticeably different than what I experienced in GA/AL.
I think we just have issues as an entire human race with prejudging people based on stereotypes which usually stems from subconscious or even conscious fear. Since 70% of the country is white, it often seems like there is systematic racism, but Stereotypes of all races or types of people exist, i.e. can’t trust cops.
I truly in my heart believe 99.9% of people don’t believe any race is superior to another. You couldn’t have said the same thing 200 years ago or even 60 years ago. But the next step is working to shed negative stereotypes that the media constantly reinforces. People have to make a conscious effort to spread love and be willing to do so out of their comfort zone.
I truly in my heart believe 99.9% of people don’t believe any race is superior to another. You couldn’t have said the same thing 200 years ago or even 60 years ago. But the next step is working to shed negative stereotypes that the media constantly reinforces. People have to make a conscious effort to spread love and be willing to do so out of their comfort zone.
I’m just ready to watch the same group of goobers try to convince us that America’s not racist bc their neighbor was black
Imo, getting in defense mode and trying to prove to someone that their mindset is wrong for perceiving racism is the beginning of the problem
but hey..... jmo
The ones that I worried the most were disheveled, skinny white dudes I used to see that came in from eastern Kentucky or West Virginia. They had a predatory feel about them and you had a feeling that they didn't really care about too much other than stealing to buy oxcy or heroin. Physical addiction is a powerful motivator to do harm.
I usually try to size up people. You can spot people that may be trying to cause mischief and are likely doing the same thing. Predators everywhere look for easy prey. Most times if one has good presence, that is enough.
A lot of this is really about class issues. If you go to lily white areas of the country, e.g. Ky, WVA, ETn, etc, same crimes, just committed by white POOR people. I currently live in Montgomery Al, from 1998 to 2009 and then 2016 to present. Not meaning to jinx myself, but in that time, I have yet to suffer a car break in. In the time I lived in Madison County, KY, in an affluent subdivision in the country, my car was broken in on 2 occasions while in my driveway. In Lexington, property crime was everywhere, same as my as Madison county. Most, if not all, was perpetrated by whites or illegals. Small percentage were black. I usually get about 2 months worth of local Madison County ky newspapers to look at from my inlaws. In the police beat nealrly all of the perps are white and look like charles manson or members of the Jessco White Family.
Last thing, the next time I hear about "white" privilege, I would challenge those people talking about that to journey to Appalachia, especially in the dead of winter, and speak to them about that, they might get an education that is about economics and less about race.
I usually try to size up people. You can spot people that may be trying to cause mischief and are likely doing the same thing. Predators everywhere look for easy prey. Most times if one has good presence, that is enough.
A lot of this is really about class issues. If you go to lily white areas of the country, e.g. Ky, WVA, ETn, etc, same crimes, just committed by white POOR people. I currently live in Montgomery Al, from 1998 to 2009 and then 2016 to present. Not meaning to jinx myself, but in that time, I have yet to suffer a car break in. In the time I lived in Madison County, KY, in an affluent subdivision in the country, my car was broken in on 2 occasions while in my driveway. In Lexington, property crime was everywhere, same as my as Madison county. Most, if not all, was perpetrated by whites or illegals. Small percentage were black. I usually get about 2 months worth of local Madison County ky newspapers to look at from my inlaws. In the police beat nealrly all of the perps are white and look like charles manson or members of the Jessco White Family.
Last thing, the next time I hear about "white" privilege, I would challenge those people talking about that to journey to Appalachia, especially in the dead of winter, and speak to them about that, they might get an education that is about economics and less about race.
America is not systemically racist, but due to human nature we all have racial biases built within us..mostly due what we see in the media. Hope this helps.
Very true. I'm definitely more on edge in situations around aggressive poor people than anything---and they might be black, yellow, or white. It's the wild card aspect of not knowing what they are going to do or say. If that's racist or "poor-ist", so be it.
I feel like you get aids and a heroin addiction just from typing out “West Virginia”
Well, same goes for Eastern Kentucky. We used to joke about the mountain counties there that "anyone with any get up and go, got up and left." The social fabric that held most of those places together is so thin that it is damn near invisible.
Look, it is not just black America that was gutted by the "Great Society" of Lyndon Johnson, white Americans from Appalachia were to. The hallmarks of that region, individualism, distrust of the government, and refusal to accept charity are largely just myths. There are 3 and 4 generations of "living on the draw." After the Obama gutted the coal industry, there was another economic migration out of the mountains and they ended up in Lexington or the eastern counties of the Lex Metro area. One thing about the coal industry, it is more than just minors. You have mechanics, safety personnel, people that make the equipment, etc. But I digress. Anyway, they came out of the hills with no jobs and they brought their criminal activity with them. The worst thing was when they hooked up with Detroit and Mexican heroin dealers to bring in more opiates.
I can only respond to this through my eyes. I grew up in a very fortunate situation. Both of my parents worked full time to provide us with the best educations possible. Grew up in an affluent neighborhood that was mainly white. However, I did play sports with people of all colors. I respect everyone that gives respect back. I have worked the night shift with many underprivileged colors of human beings. They have a different look at life than i do, and the only way to hopefully understand is to listen. There is no way that i can fully understand because those things have not happened to me, but I always try to listen.
Both of my parents always taught me to never judge before meeting, but I will say that through news and such that I have felt a few times a little nervous around people. Those people come in all colors. I really think a lot of this issue is that people try to say we don't see color, but color is undeniable. Its there and it isn't going to change.
I try to look at race like i look at gender. DNA and Chromosomes drive the gender, and just like gender race is also driven by your DNA. Since everyone has different DNA i try to treat everyone as i would want them to treat me. (I can be an ass sometimes, but who cant say they have never been an ass before).
There are many systematic things in place that make it easier for specific people to rise to the top. Once there it is difficult to remove them. I had never heard of red lining till this morning. Absolutely ridiculous that you can draw lines on a map to decide which areas should stay bad and which areas to make better. The places outside the red allow for loans and allow for upward growth. I do not know how to change this, but would like for it to. As an American i still believe that this place is the best country on Earth. It provides the most, and best opportunities for anyone to rise from the bottom to the top. Now, we have to level that playing field. Only way we can do this is through this conversation, and through reform. A deep deep look inside each and everyone of us.
I am 100% positive i don't have everything here I am thinking. Not sure i know how to put it all in words coherently, but i tried. Not sure i have ever really gotten into this conversation, because I never saw it as me having a race problem. Its to big for everyone not to act and join the conversation now. It will be awkward, and sometimes hard but we all need to join in and listen. Listen to those that have these feelings. If we want to be the best country we need it to be a place for everyone. Of all colors and backgrounds.
Both of my parents always taught me to never judge before meeting, but I will say that through news and such that I have felt a few times a little nervous around people. Those people come in all colors. I really think a lot of this issue is that people try to say we don't see color, but color is undeniable. Its there and it isn't going to change.
I try to look at race like i look at gender. DNA and Chromosomes drive the gender, and just like gender race is also driven by your DNA. Since everyone has different DNA i try to treat everyone as i would want them to treat me. (I can be an ass sometimes, but who cant say they have never been an ass before).
There are many systematic things in place that make it easier for specific people to rise to the top. Once there it is difficult to remove them. I had never heard of red lining till this morning. Absolutely ridiculous that you can draw lines on a map to decide which areas should stay bad and which areas to make better. The places outside the red allow for loans and allow for upward growth. I do not know how to change this, but would like for it to. As an American i still believe that this place is the best country on Earth. It provides the most, and best opportunities for anyone to rise from the bottom to the top. Now, we have to level that playing field. Only way we can do this is through this conversation, and through reform. A deep deep look inside each and everyone of us.
I am 100% positive i don't have everything here I am thinking. Not sure i know how to put it all in words coherently, but i tried. Not sure i have ever really gotten into this conversation, because I never saw it as me having a race problem. Its to big for everyone not to act and join the conversation now. It will be awkward, and sometimes hard but we all need to join in and listen. Listen to those that have these feelings. If we want to be the best country we need it to be a place for everyone. Of all colors and backgrounds.
Umm, there is nobody on the planet outside of family that I trust 100%
I concur, and I don't even trust some family 100%. Outside of family, there is perhaps one person I trust that much, that is about it. I guess you can say that depending on the issue, you can trust certain people 100% less so with other issues. If I was defending a firebase from overwhelming odds, there are people you could trust to come to your aid regardless. In peacetime, you might not want to trust them in a business situation or a political situation.
Most people are naturally cautious or uncertain in strange surroundings. Since the war on poverty created all the gov’t housing projects, the races have been further segregating. Instead of living amongst each other, particularly in the lower and middle classes, the cultures and norms haven’t merged - choosing the most successful ones, but have diverged further and further apart. Even the standards are changing in each. The differences have more to do with culture and education - in one hope is being systematically destroyed, upward mobility has ground to a halt, the other becomes more and more isolated and protective as well as indifferent to others.
We are, by policy and law, breeding failure in the guise of helping. We create anger on both sides, one without hope of a better future and one tired of being burdened with paying for hopelessness. The problems are not as much aboute skin tone as they are cultural and habitual patterns. Just imho.
We are, by policy and law, breeding failure in the guise of helping. We create anger on both sides, one without hope of a better future and one tired of being burdened with paying for hopelessness. The problems are not as much aboute skin tone as they are cultural and habitual patterns. Just imho.
that’s racist. whites, hispanics have the same issues in carious communities.
if we really want to end racism, it begins and ends with stop judging people on the color of their skin but do it on the content of their character.
Obviously it isn't because the color of the skin. A lot of people don't have a chance from birth because of the situation they are put in. Single family home (or possibly no parent), some cases of complete neglect, some cases of parents not giving a damn, some cases of not being taught accountability or respect of authority, etc. A person cannot choose their life from birth or before birth. There is no control of who your parents are, who your family is, how much wealth your family has, how much realistic opportunity you and your family have. And it's very easy for people who have had opportunity say "well, lot's of people have been extremely successful and came from shit". That's a very true statement, but the honest truth is most people are who they are with how they are raised and who they were born to. That's why I respect the hell out of people (no matter the race) who was in a shit situation from birth and made something of themselves (no matter what definition of success it is).
So next the question is who should be accountable for change occurring and more black kids having a chance at birth. I'm talking lower crime rate, better graduation rate, better employment rate, higher base salary, better life across the board for African Americans? Many different answers. I think it starts with having two parents at home who are committed to each other and committed to raising successful people. Family commitment. In order to accomplish this, our government and our policy makers need to make damn sure that black people have an equal footing (if not more than an equal footing) at a good education system, good housing choices, no discrimination in the job market, a fair shot at life. We need an overall society that loves one another despite our outward differences and we need to treat each other we love and respect. Everyone is to blame for the situation we are in, whites and blacks. We can be better, but it's going to take time.
TLDR: It starts at home. We need to give children more of a chance to be successful. Ways to do that: Commitment to a marriage, commitment to family and raising children the right way, government policy to make sure discrimination doesn't occur in our country across the board, and respect your fellow man despite outward differences.
I agree....two parent homes have economic and educational advantages that IMO is the quickest way to improving the socioeconomic level of poor disaffected people of all races....during the civil rights era 70% plus AA homes had two parents,....now its in the 20's....home ownership is one of the best ways to build generational wealth and that is much easier in a two income home.
If there are laws on the books that are still discriminatory lets discuss them and tackle that problem....If not its going to boil down to the individual and their communities both black and white.
You're back to individual choices, there's no policy move or governmental impact or control on divorce rates and "commitment to marriage." Saying to people, stay married is not a solution. I'm not saying I disagree with the value of 2 parent homes but what options are you offering to help raise poor kids from single family homes out of poverty and providing those kids with better educational / work / life opportunities? This is a turn from OP's post but saying love each other and stay married solves zero problems for socially disadvantaged kids. Not trying to criticize but trying to push you to now say what policy(s) you would implement to achieve "family commitment."
Great points, the public school system has also failed these kids as well in that SOMEONE should be able to teach them a difference between right and wrong, SOMEONE should be able to teach them to respect authority, SOMEONE should be able to teach them in America they can achieve anything they want through hard work..you're right that a child can't control what their parents do in terms of their love for each other, but IMO the solution could come at the school level and teaching these kids about Christ and his teachings of loving your neighbor as yourself(Our country was founded on these values). This issue didn't just start a week ago it's been building up for the past 40-50 years when Christian values are no longer taught in society. JMO.
As someone who has lived through the turbulent sixties, Watts, the Vietnam War, Kent State, so many racial riots I can no longer remember, as an elderly white male I have to say this now. I believe that this racial thing has festered and been swept under the rug so many times now that the rug is ragged from all that 'sweeping." I believe that this is the last time we will have to "get this right", get off our asses and demand that justice be for all and not just for a select few. We see this all the way to the top of our government as well as a the very bottom. Justice for sale! If we ignore this again, as so many times before, we are going to see our nation desolve before our eyes with violence and damage. It's our choice!! JMHO
I guess the question I have is, why is the African American household typically single parent? It’s obviously a huge cultural issue. Can that issue only be fixed individually? You never see it in the news that most issues occur because kids were never given a chance from birth due to having 1 parent, having shitty parents, or just not having much opportunity in general from the beginning.
Let me start by saying, I am not political but probably should be more active in trying to change things I disagree with in my community. I'm not dead yet so there's still time. That said, two jobs in this world I would never do - be a cop or teach. Understand, my father was an MP for 30 years and most of my family teach. To do either, you pretty much have to have a calling like the clergy because they are pretty thankless jobs filled by a majority of folks trying to do the right thing and do things well to make a difference. Not sure if that majority is 51% or 90%, I'll let other people debate that.
But I'll tell you one thing I've observed about every great public school I know of - they have incredible parent and community support. The kind of parent support that comes in the form of money and volunteer hours from parents who have an abundance of both money and time. Teaching of values has a firm place in these schools, teachings of Christ do not. My point is, schools have a limited ability to raise kids up out of poverty without either incredible individual motivation or parental motivation making education a top priority. When that is present, kids succeed and the schools do their jobs. When that is lacking, almost no amount of effort or purpose or Christ is going to change the outcome.
Who are you, as a presumably white person, to tell blacks that they need to have a family structure that mimics (traditional) white family structure? Who are you to impose your cultural norms on them?
I hear you, but IMO taking the entire foundation of what this country was founded upon is the sole reason we are where we are today. It doesn't necessarily have to be Christian values, but we need to teach the value of treating everyone equally, right and wrong, etc and not teach these kids are all victims and that America is a terrible racist country that is bad in every imaginable way. THAT is why we're seeing the looting and rioting because these kids don't see anything wrong with it. Watch this video...
I would take race out of the divorce rate question. Saw a study that showed divorce rates among blacks, hispanics, and non-black non-hispanics (which I read to be caucasians or asians, I guess) and the 1st marriage divorce rate was 44-48%, pretty tight grouping. Divorce rate for less than high school diploma was over 58% and the divorce rate for bachelor's degree was under 30%. That makes it look like a socio-economic issue and a pretty vicious cycle.
Having two parents is “white family structure”? News to me.
Not intended at all to indicate that a single Mom or Dad can’t raise successful children and give their families opportunity for success. They certainly can and plenty of cases of that. I’m saying successful people are mostly made successful by successful parent(s). And success being respect of others, work ethic, putting others before yourself, etc. Is there a way to success even if you didn’t have the best family life coming up, sure. But the road to success is tougher.
I’m saying it starts at home. How you are raised, what you are taught, the values you learn, etc.
I never said anything about divorce rate. You can have kids and not be married/together.
Like I said, they teach values like respect for others, right and wrong, compassion, empathy, etc. but it's not christ-centered and doesn't need to be. I'll bet that person in the video goes to Church every Sunday (or did at some points in her life), this is a breakdown of a different sort altogether. They're justifying and rationalizing actions their own faith would tell them is wrong, just like everyone does in some area of their own life. But showing me a video of protestors at maybe the lowest point of their lives and trying to say this is a failing of an education system that lacks Christ in its teachings feels a little extreme. I agree with you, America is not a terrible racist country that is bad in every imaginable way but there is racism here, there are problems here, and there is a much more middle of the road, nuanced discussion that needs to be had that exists somewhere between the extremes.
Now, how do you help and raise up the children who don't have this advantage at home? Again, not saying I have an answer but that question needs to be answered or this cycle goes on and on.
That's reasonable, I'm a Christian so I guess I'm biased in that area...I just think that the Judeo-Christian teaching of "loving your neighbor as yourself" needs to be taught to these young kids in some form or fashion, which then would stop most of these encounters on both sides. We have a sin problem in this country more than anything else..that goes for police brutality, looting, murder, etc
You can’t. They have to basically reach success on their own despite not having the same advantages. That’s why I said previously I respect the hell out of those people (no matter the race).
So, divorce rate and/or unmarried birth rates are the issue. Your point was the need for 2 parent homes. The same stats on unmarried birth rates apply here, as well. It is largely a socioeconomic issue not a race issue.
I hear you, but man that's a tough road and a tough stance. I don't disagree with you in that this is the case now, but is there something more we can do to change that or increase the odds of improving situations? I think if we don't figure out some solutions, what's going on now will only get worse and the divides will get worse. As someone else in this thread said, when do we get to our last chance to change this story before it rises up and destroys the country?
uhmm....pretty sure the need for a sperm and egg to have a kid makes means that there should be shared responsibility as to the outcome of the creation. Do you disagree....what makes that "white"?
I think certain organizations have helped. Boys and Girls Club, YMCA. I think sports has helped. Being around a team atmosphere to achieve a common goal. I believe in some cases good teachers, good mentors, good coaches, good people help.
But none of things can weigh as much in terms of importance of what’s being learned at home and what situation you have at home.
I don’t have the stats in front of me, but I think I’m with you. Same thing occurs to all races with this issue in my view. It’s extremely important.
Sorry I didn't get to post on this thread when it was in the Bunker, and I am a bit disappointed it had to be moved.
I haven't read the responses in the thread so forgive me OP if I cover the same ground as others.
Yes, there are many white folks that are scared by black men, and intimidated by black women. There's no harm in saying it because it's the God's honest truth. We see it daily. Likewise there are black folks who are similarly uneasy around whites. It's not unusual nor is it necessarily an evil thing.
We fear, or are suspicious of, that which we do not understand or that which is foreign to our own personal experience; that which strays from our own individual norm. The reality is that most white folks have never had long term, meaningful relationships with black folks, or other races, to the same level as they have with whites. That's not inherently racist; folks learn about relationships through their own family experiences at the critical ages, and most families are still homogeneous to large degree. I read somewhere that toddlers as young as 2 are already learning to differentiate by skin color even though that differentiation doesn't mean that they hate or distrust ... yet. That is very much learned behavior. By the time kids are school age, they've already formed opinions about how other people are supposed to talk, act, dress, behave and interact with each other. Those opinions are informed by culture and to a lesser extent, race. Then, longstanding biases are impressed upon them by those they look up to and learn from. All of this creates a concoction of distrust that manifests itself in fear or uneasiness in some situations.
The only way to combat this issue long term is to know and love your neighbor, and to have "neighbors of many flavors" so to speak. The more different kinds of people you know, the more broadly accepting you generally become. That's why, of course, travel is a recommended cure for ignorance, which walks hand in hand with racism. Another way to combat it is to have multi-cultural families such that the experience growing up is far more diverse and less native. Multi-cultural/multi-racial families aren't even remarkable any more now in most circles; in another 20 years they'll be the norm.
This is not to say that people don't grow on their own without significant contacts with folks not like them, and that they cannot overcome those inherent biases and reject them out of hand. That happens too. Some of us have managed to grow up our entire lives without a shred of racial animus ever creeping into our heads, but those kinds of persons are rare indeed. To reach a post-racial society, we must actively seek to eliminate cultural bias and stereotyping as both lead directly to fear and malaise around other races. This must be mutual, or multi-lateral, and folks have to want to improve. That's the hard thing. Far too many use their resentment, and yes, their hate, as a point of emphasis for problems in their own lives.
I hope I've made a coherent point or two. This is an issue I've expended considerable time attempting to understand, and often I feel I am no closer to a solution than I was when I began. Finding our commonalities is hard but necessary.
I haven't read the responses in the thread so forgive me OP if I cover the same ground as others.
Yes, there are many white folks that are scared by black men, and intimidated by black women. There's no harm in saying it because it's the God's honest truth. We see it daily. Likewise there are black folks who are similarly uneasy around whites. It's not unusual nor is it necessarily an evil thing.
We fear, or are suspicious of, that which we do not understand or that which is foreign to our own personal experience; that which strays from our own individual norm. The reality is that most white folks have never had long term, meaningful relationships with black folks, or other races, to the same level as they have with whites. That's not inherently racist; folks learn about relationships through their own family experiences at the critical ages, and most families are still homogeneous to large degree. I read somewhere that toddlers as young as 2 are already learning to differentiate by skin color even though that differentiation doesn't mean that they hate or distrust ... yet. That is very much learned behavior. By the time kids are school age, they've already formed opinions about how other people are supposed to talk, act, dress, behave and interact with each other. Those opinions are informed by culture and to a lesser extent, race. Then, longstanding biases are impressed upon them by those they look up to and learn from. All of this creates a concoction of distrust that manifests itself in fear or uneasiness in some situations.
The only way to combat this issue long term is to know and love your neighbor, and to have "neighbors of many flavors" so to speak. The more different kinds of people you know, the more broadly accepting you generally become. That's why, of course, travel is a recommended cure for ignorance, which walks hand in hand with racism. Another way to combat it is to have multi-cultural families such that the experience growing up is far more diverse and less native. Multi-cultural/multi-racial families aren't even remarkable any more now in most circles; in another 20 years they'll be the norm.
This is not to say that people don't grow on their own without significant contacts with folks not like them, and that they cannot overcome those inherent biases and reject them out of hand. That happens too. Some of us have managed to grow up our entire lives without a shred of racial animus ever creeping into our heads, but those kinds of persons are rare indeed. To reach a post-racial society, we must actively seek to eliminate cultural bias and stereotyping as both lead directly to fear and malaise around other races. This must be mutual, or multi-lateral, and folks have to want to improve. That's the hard thing. Far too many use their resentment, and yes, their hate, as a point of emphasis for problems in their own lives.
I hope I've made a coherent point or two. This is an issue I've expended considerable time attempting to understand, and often I feel I am no closer to a solution than I was when I began. Finding our commonalities is hard but necessary.
