You don't hear them bitching about 10 years of military occupation by union forces where property was basically stolen from them by carpetbaggers.
I’m conservative and could care less if confederate statues/flags remain
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Wow, sounds like he really shit in his Easter basket. A guy with skills like that, if he had been on the right side of history, could have become a real American hero. A tactician of his skill could have probably ended the war in half the time, and saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Maybe he could have gone on to become a US president. Now he's just remembered as the guy that lost the war to enslave people. Shame.
No, you don’t “love” history if you “don’t give a toot about what happened yesterday”. Nor do you even understand the subject of history and its impact on the present and future.
Amazingly myopic.
I choose not to remember him that way, you can choose to remember any way you like.
This is both incredibly ignorant and ironic. Well done. It is illegal to put up a statue or anything else glorifying Hitler and the nazis in Germany. Removing statues from public property that were erected as symbols of racism and oppression should be a no brainer in our country.
Equal opportunity? Can you explain to me how policies that support a few ethnic groups (affirmative action, quotas for federal hiring and college admissions) promote an equal playing field? I’ll hang up and listen.
It is like a great story, love them but I a'int the least bit worried about them impacting our present and future. It is just not that important.
I disagree. I think if you make standards and abide by those standards for education and employment all can achieve it no matter what your race. It is sad that you believe that races are different and some are better than others.
Freeing his slaves was a noble gesture, then he went on to fight for (among other things) for others to maintain the right to own other people. You don’t build statues to the loser unless you’re sending a message. A hundred years ago, there was a strong movement to remind blacks in the south that the war didn’t change a whole lot. I’ll say again, I see no need for statues to honor the confederacy. Museums? Sure. History books? Absolutely. Statues in the middle of town? Nah.
I’ve watched your conversation and for a guy who says he doesn’t really “feel strongly about it”, you seem pretty impassioned.
Slavery, more so, the expansion of slavery was the key issue that led to secession but it wasn’t the only issue.
When you say Robert E. Lee “turned his back on his country”, you show a lack of understanding of the history of that country. The United States was just that, it was a collection of individual states. State pride was far more common in that day than was national pride. It’s not surprising at all that Lee chose not to fight against the people with whom he was raised. To march into the towns in which he was raised and lead an occupying force. He didn’t turn his back on his country. He supported his state.
No need for a statue of a confederate general in Richmond and the confederate cause was undefendable, imo, but I’m the context of the time, Lee wasn’t a traitor. He was, however, on the wrong side of this war.
What is so hard to understand then by your definition about choosing the state over the country being a revolutionary act of secession? And then they lost. Why would anyone in the United States of America view them as worthy of honoring under those circumstances?
Lol. This has been going on since the early 60s. I’m sure you’ll pull it together before you die.
Tell when you were enslaved. My dad grew up on a farm and was the first to go to college (paid is own way by working). It had nothing to with his g-g-g-granddaddy. Stop blaming others for your problems.
Completely agree with your stance on the statues. On Lee, allow me to play the devil's advocate. You accurately laid out Lee's rational for choosing to fight for the Confederacy. Most officers in the pre-war army made a similar choice, but not all. General George Thomas and a number of other southern officers chose to remain in the Union Army. I think the oft-argued point that people were loyal to their states in that era and not the United States is a little inaccurate. This excerpt from an article on Lee discusses the point:
Today every Officer takes an oath “to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.” According to an Army oath from 1830 (Lee commissioned in 1829), the Officers of the time swore “that I will bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever” (history.army.mil). Lee took a solemn oath to defend his country against all “enemies or opposers,” not to defend the rights of his home state of Virginia to continue the institution of chattel slavery. But instead of taking a field command in the US Army, one that he was offered by General-in-Chief Winfield Scott, Lee left to offer his services to the Confederacy, eventually taking command of the Army of Northern Virginia.
I admire President Lincoln for his plan to heal the country which included not trying all of the Confederate military leaders for treason. After Lincoln's assassination, Grant honored Lincoln's wishes by intervening to stop President Johnson from trying Lee for treason. However, that doesn't change the fact that Lee betrayed the oath he took to defend the United States. If he had been a general in the Virginia militia before the war and had only sworn an oath to defend his state, a better argument could be made that was not a traitor.
That's a silly straw man. Who said anything about statues to honor union generals or soldiers killed in the war? The issue are statues erected to honor the confederacy and it's leaders. Most of those statues were put up as a symbol of white supremacy during the height of the KKK era with almost all of the rest being erected as a response to the Civl Rights movement.
No I think it is a purposeful plan by really bad people to repress an entire group of people. Today we call them democrats. Some call them liberals. Either way the power grab to keep a social economic class repressed is gross.
Keep telling yourself if that makes you feel better. Conservatives set up the Jim Crow system in the south and fought tooth and nail against the civil rights movement. Southern conservatives fled the Democratic Party because they were angry about losing the fight against civil rights. Go read about Nixon's southern strategy if you are honestly in the dark about the history on this stuff.
And when he felt he could no longer uphold that oath, he resigned his commission and explained why. At the time he took that oath, Virginia didn’t have a military.
You’re welcome to feel however you would like but the truth is, at the time, state loyalty and pride was stronger than national pride for most Americans. As you stated, “most officers” made a similar decision. Is 100% unison required to make the point valid?
I clearly said, Lee was on the wrong side of this. I clearly said he shouldn’t be celebrated, but his motivation wasn’t maintaining his slaves or owning other humans. It was supporting his state, his home.
Yep, I thought that would draw you out. You have shown your racist stripes. One is good and one is bad and you are the decider. Sound familiar?
Me I am good either way but they all go or all stay. It was a war and we lost a lot of good American souls. If we want to claim victors get to choose just be honest about how you see it.
Nope believe it is the lack of an education system in poor neighborhoods that benefits its students. When our poor neighborhood will not take responsibility for their community it is a never ending cycle of failure. It is not the race it is the community.
I wonder what the tax dollar per student looks like. Just a guess but worse performing schools have more.
It's not the schools it is the leadership. You have to demand success from all if you are going to have success. The battle is to try and save the ones who want to learn and watch as the administration continues to allow disruptions and outright defiance. It is sad when you have that many kids trapped in a system of their parents choosing.
The good old rely on the government and other ethnicities to do the work for you. How lazy of you.
Keep doing what you’re doing, victim hood looks good on you .
And back to the farm makes my point. That’s where my dad was In the 60s with no degree. He now has three sons all with masters and one with a doctorate. See how that works. It doesn’t take generations.
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Lol, imagine sitting in front of a keyboard being a person you are not in real life, chastising people you don't know for your own behaviors in life because it makes you feel better.... ooh what you don't need to imagine that, you live it daily...
Racist? What on earth are you talking about?
You attacked a silly straw man about people tearing down statues honoring Union soldiers. That isn't happening anywhere as the discussion is about confederate monuments.
This isn't an issue where it is impossible to say one side was "good" and the other was "bad." The leaders in the south seceded in order to maintain the abominable practice of slavery. The confederate cause was morally reprehensible and we are very fortunate that Lincoln and the people of the northern states were willing to sacrifice so much to defeat it and save our country. The world be an unimaginably worse place today had the United States not existed during the 20th century.
Were your dad's grandparents slaves? Did he grow up watching people in his community get lynched for looking at someone of the opposite race wrong? Was he barred from voting? Could he eat at any restaurant he wanted? Did the government maintain a system to prevent him from moving into certain neighborhoods or getting a loan?
There is no comparison between the oppression black people have faced in our country and what any other group has faced. Claiming the problems black people still face today are because they are "lazy" is as racist as it gets.
This is tiring. Is this you taking a knee? Everybody can complain about the past. It’s what you do today that makes a difference. You do know more whites were lynched than blacks? I’m sure I should complain about that injustice. Please spare me the tolerant left liberal high ground. I’m pretty sure you guys/girls/hermaphrodites have cried wolf enough.
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Where on earth do you guys coming up with these nutty false stats?
From 1882-1968, some 4,743 lynchings occurred in the United States (not all lynchings were recorded). Of these, 3,446 or 73 percent were black and 1,297 (27 percent) were white. In other words, whites were the victims of more than one-fourth of all lynchings in the United States.
You stated what I was trying to much more coherent than I could.
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