Vax efficacy fading fast

[Big Blue]

Curious, because I have not looked at the data lately, but are Asian Americans (or Asians globally) the lowest percentage of being serious sick/dying? Was the virus engineered by Chinese to impact other races the hardest?

At least in the U.S., if Asians are the lowest rate for sickness/death, it could be because they have the highest vaccination rate. For example, as of a couple of weeks ago in Alabama, 34% of white and black folks and 30% of Hispanics had been vaccinated while 66% of Asians were vaccinated. Also, obesity is much less prevalent among Asians compared to the other groups, so it may be hard to get an apples-to-apples comparison.

But it would not at all be surprising if the CCP were researching the possibility you mention. Nor would it be surprising if the U.S. were researching similar.

 

[Stumpfan]

Curious, because I have not looked at the data lately, but are Asian Americans (or Asians globally) the lowest percentage of being serious sick/dying? Was the virus engineered by Chinese to impact other races the hardest?

They were actually sent a secret vaccine before Covid even made it here from what I read on Facebook.

 

[Stumpfan]

Lol.

I thought you said we weren't going to need booster shots. That the vaccine would last at least 2-3 years, maybe longer. I counted on you stumpy, and you lied to me!

See my other post. I explained what changed but I still think They will last years on severe disease and death. Also, things change all the time depending on variants.

 

[Stumpfan]

I think stump was right and that immunity from the vaccines (and from previous infection) will last for years and that the booster is not going to be very necessary for most of us, regardless of whether the gubment starts recommending them. Maybe for the immunocompromised and for the very old it makes sense, but antibody titers are not the only indication of immunity and the studies that I have seen seem to indicate that we get long-lasting immunity from both vaccines and from having the virus. Color me skeptical on getting the booster. If that makes me a tinfoil hat-wearer, I don't care.

I think they will in severe disease and hospitalizations but if symptomatic efficacy drops like it has in Israel then more will get the boosters. I think the biggest problem was the 2-3 weeks in between shots instead of 8-12 weeks. We should’ve had two trials with different times between shots.

 

[Jim in Scranton]

I think stump was right and that immunity from the vaccines (and from previous infection) will last for years and that the booster is not going to be very necessary for most of us, regardless of whether the gubment starts recommending them. Maybe for the immunocompromised and for the very old it makes sense, but antibody titers are not the only indication of immunity and the studies that I have seen seem to indicate that we get long-lasting immunity from both vaccines and from having the virus. Color me skeptical on getting the booster. If that makes me a tinfoil hat-wearer, I don't care.

I agree that the vaccines will provide immunity from serious disease for a long time. Which makes this whole recommendation so baffling to me (especially considering there has been no evidence provided that they are necessary for everyone).

I was hoping @mrhickory could answer my question what this booster recommendation means to him, but I understand he's super busy.

 

[Big Blue]

I agree that the vaccines will provide immunity from serious disease for a long time. Which makes this whole recommendation so baffling to me (especially considering there has been no evidence provided that they are necessary for everyone).

I was hoping @mrhickory could answer my question what this booster recommendation means to him, but I understand he's super busy.

The cynic in me remembers that money is a factor in all this and could become even more of a consideration in decision-making as this thing starts winding down.

 

[Big Blue]

I think they will in severe disease and hospitalizations but if symptomatic efficacy drops like it has in Israel then more will get the boosters. I think the biggest problem was the 2-3 weeks in between shots instead of 8-12 weeks. We should’ve had two trials with different times between shots.

I'm sure that more time between shots would make some difference, but the difference between delta and the other strains probably has more to do with what we are seeing than anything else. If we could get people to take the vaccines, regardless of the time interval, most of this would no longer matter.

 

[JRinATL1]

They were actually sent a secret vaccine before Covid even made it here from what I read on Facebook.

Pretty interesting disparity https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

Coincidental? CCP doing work...

 

[Jim in Scranton]

Curious, because I have not looked at the data lately, but are Asian Americans (or Asians globally) the lowest percentage of being serious sick/dying? Was the virus engineered by Chinese to impact other races the hardest?

There are obviously people all over the world that have pre-existing immunity to COVID, but I wonder if Asians have even more just because this virus is similar to other Coronaviruses that are in that part of the world.

 

[Stumpfan]

I'm sure that more time between shots would make some difference, but the difference between delta and the other strains probably has more to do with what we are seeing than anything else. If we could get people to take the vaccines, regardless of the time interval, most of this would no longer matter.

Agree. I mean if you’re vaccinated and come into contact w/10 infected instead of 4 due to delta, the efficacy is going to drop. Also, I think delta viral load is causing symptomatic infections more than alpha. Lastly, Israel efficacy will always be lower since you’re comparing the unvaccinated to the vaccinated.

 

[Stumpfan]

Pretty interesting disparity https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

Coincidental? CCP doing work...

Did you even read Blue’s response?

 

[au4life_rz]

There are obviously people all over the world that have pre-existing immunity to COVID, but I wonder if Asians have even more just because this virus is similar to other Coronaviruses that are in that part of the world.

That, and the fact that wearing masks is much more pervasive in Asia. 😜

 

[Big Blue]

Pretty interesting disparity https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

Coincidental? CCP doing work...

Just looking at those graphs, it seems likely that those differences could be explained by higher vaccination rates and lower obesity levels for Asians compared to other groups. There are probably other factors. If there was and attempt to engineer this virus to be more effective against non-Asians, it doesn't seem to have been very successful.

 

[Stumpfan]

Just looking at those graphs, it seems likely that those differences could be explained by higher vaccination rates and lower obesity levels for Asians compared to other groups. There are probably other factors. If there was and attempt to engineer this virus to be more effective against non-Asians, it doesn't seem to have been very successful.

I bet they wear n95 masks as well.

 

[Jim in Scranton]

That, and the fact that wearing masks is much more pervasive in Asia. 😜

 

[WarEagleG]

I'm not advocating for people not to get the vaccines, so don't put that on me.

At what point will the triple vaccinated start blaming and shaming the double vaccinated? Or will it be the people that have gotten 4 jabs a year that are looking down on the rest of society? Will I need the third one to eat in a restaurant? Or get into a ball game? If I have 3 shots, will I need to wear a mask indoors? Where does this ever end?

When will we acknowledge that natural immunity is far superior to the vaccine, and stop forcing people to get multiple shots for a virus that they are largely unaffected by?

If natural immunity can be and is proven to be more effective, we will need to find a safe way to allow people to reach that status. Until then we are just doing our best to keep people alive. I don’t like the shut downs because they are protecting people that have chosen not to protect themselves. But, unfortunately, there are enough of them that hospitals are again over run with COVID patients. Until that stops happening we are going to have to live with vaccinations over natural immunity.

 

[Big Blue]

I bet they wear n95 masks as well.

I'm not sold on masks, n95 or otherwise, making a very significant difference in all this, at least not for the bigger picture.

 

[Stumpfan]

I'm not sold on masks, n95 or otherwise, making a very significant difference in all this, at least not for the bigger picture.

If they are religiously wearing them unicersakky like so many do then it makes a difference. I was double masked (3 ply cloth on top of n95) in a icu Covid room and I can assure you, very little got thru if any. My brother has to leave due to asthma as a kid as he got short of breath.

 

[Big Blue]

If they are religiously wearing them unicersakky like so many do then it makes a difference. I was double masked (3 ply cloth on top of n95) in a icu Covid room and I can assure you, very little got thru if any. My brother has to leave due to asthma as a kid as he got short of breath.

Like I said, I'm talking about the bigger picture than single cases in a single room. To really tell if it makes a difference, there need to be comparisons of infection/case rates for groups that are masking vs groups that are not. The data from studies has been mixed and hard to collect. Which is why I'm not sold. I very strongly suspect that, compared to e.g. vaccines, reductions in infections/cases from masking are a fart in a whirlwind.

 

[JRinATL1]

Just looking at those graphs, it seems likely that those differences could be explained by higher vaccination rates and lower obesity levels for Asians compared to other groups. There are probably other factors. If there was and attempt to engineer this virus to be more effective against non-Asians, it doesn't seem to have been very successful.

I mean, pretty sure they know we are all (myself excluded) a bunch of FATZ!

 

[Big Blue]

I mean, pretty sure they know we are all (myself excluded) a bunch of FATZ!

I'm more of a former fat. I wasn't super overweight, but COVID and some other health issues inspired me to lose about 35 pounds and keep it off for several months now.

 

[JRinATL1]

I mean, pretty sure they know we are all (myself excluded) a bunch of FATZ!

I'm more of a former fat. I wasn't super overweight, but COVID and some other health issues inspired me to lose about 35 pounds and keep it off for several months now.

Congrats on the sects

 

[Jim in Scranton]

Like I said, I'm talking about the bigger picture than single cases in a single room. To really tell if it makes a difference, there need to be comparisons of infection/case rates for groups that are masking vs groups that are not. The data from studies has been mixed and hard to collect. Which is why I'm not sold. I very strongly suspect that, compared to e.g. vaccines, reductions in infections/cases from masking are a fart in a whirlwind.

I'm still shocked, based on complete lack of any evidence/study/real world examples, that people are still buying the "masks work" nonsense. The CDC admits as much:

 

[au4life_rz]

So do you think Israel is on it whatever it is? So far I’ve read:
1) Doing the 2 shots 2-3 weeks apart compared to 8-12 weeks apart really hurt our immunity. The UK had better efficacy after 6 months than us because they waited 8-12 weeks. Our bodies treated the two shots like one shot.

2) The elderly over 60 getting the third shot in Israel are getting 5-10 times more antibodies than they had weeks after their second shot.

3) Delta’s transmissibility and viral loads are so much greater that it’s lowering the efficacy.

All of the above were not known when you were being told how great the vaccines are. Btw, natural immunizing is waning fast as well so I’m not sure why you’re bringing that up.

What I want to know is what is the symptomatic efficacy of mRNA (Pfizer for me) in the US currently. It would be different here than Israel. Either way, I’ll get the booster to help me not give Covid to my dad or MIL.

#1 is not surprising. It's TYPICAL for things that are new. It's a bit frustrating because I've humbly tried to make the point all along that with new things, we simply don't know it all. We usually have to tweak, tune, adjust or outright replace components when we roll out new technology.

All of you busting my balls, and saying "mRNA technology is 25 years old. It isn't new" because you thought the things I said might hurt vaccination efforts. It's just crazy to act the way everyone from internet board members, to scientists, researchers, doctors and leading authorities have towards anything that didn't cheerlead 100% in drone mode for the narrative.

I thought that lengthening the interim between shots MIGHT possibly help, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is true. I also wouldn't be surprised if "boosters" don't help with immunity, (though again, I'm still afraid that these new vaccines might be trading a great specific response, for less overall protection in the longer term, against the entire family of C-19 variants). But either way, it's not surprising at all that we're learning, and having to tweak and tune things, just as I said many times, (as it was obvious and should have been EXPECTED for something that was indeed new).

 

[Big Blue]

#1 is not surprising. It's TYPICAL for things that are new. It's a bit frustrating because I've humbly tried to make the point all along that with new things, we simply don't know it all. We usually have to tweak, tune, adjust or outright replace components when we roll out new technology.

All of you busting my balls, and saying "mRNA technology is 25 years old. It isn't new" because you thought the things I said might hurt vaccination efforts. It's just crazy to act the way everyone from internet board members, to scientists, researchers, doctors and leading authorities have towards anything that didn't cheerlead 100% in drone mode for the narrative.

I thought that lengthening the interim between shots MIGHT possibly help, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is true. I also wouldn't be surprised if "boosters" don't help with immunity, (though again, I'm still afraid that these new vaccines might be trading a great specific response, for less overall protection in the longer term, against the entire family of C-19 variants). But either way, it's not surprising at all that we're learning, and having to tweak and tune things, just as I said many times, (as it was obvious and should have been EXPECTED for something that was indeed new).

Your usage of the term "drone mode" is quite ironic. Also, the interval between vaccine doses has nothing to do with mRNA technology.

 

[Stumpfan]

#1 is not surprising. It's TYPICAL for things that are new. It's a bit frustrating because I've humbly tried to make the point all along that with new things, we simply don't know it all. We usually have to tweak, tune, adjust or outright replace components when we roll out new technology.

All of you busting my balls, and saying "mRNA technology is 25 years old. It isn't new" because you thought the things I said might hurt vaccination efforts. It's just crazy to act the way everyone from internet board members, to scientists, researchers, doctors and leading authorities have towards anything that didn't cheerlead 100% in drone mode for the narrative.

I thought that lengthening the interim between shots MIGHT possibly help, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is true. I also wouldn't be surprised if "boosters" don't help with immunity, (though again, I'm still afraid that these new vaccines might be trading a great specific response, for less overall protection in the longer term, against the entire family of C-19 variants). But either way, it's not surprising at all that we're learning, and having to tweak and tune things, just as I said many times, (as it was obvious and should have been EXPECTED for something that was indeed new).

We don’t care. Vaccines are doing Fvcking awesome. Many want 100% vaccines though. Too bad.

 

[au4life_rz]

Your usage of the term "drone mode" is quite ironic. Also, the interval between vaccine doses has nothing to do with mRNA technology.

Good grief. I never said it had anything to do with the mRNA technology, but it dang sure has something to do with the efficacy of any of the vaccines. That was my point and why I it was mentioned.

 

[au4life_rz]

We don’t care. Vaccines are doing Fvcking awesome. Many want 100% vaccines though. Too bad.

Since when did you start speaking for the entire board??? LOL!

I definitely don't expect you to ever admit it when you're dead wrong. You and others don't have the character and integrity to operate like stand up guys typically do, but I'm sure others on the boards are noticing.

 

[Stumpfan]

Since when did you start speaking for the entire board??? I definitely don't expect you to ever admit it when you're dead wrong. You and others don't have the character and integrity to operate like stand up guys typically do.

The vaccines are miraculous. See the hospitals and deaths of vaccinated. See Iceland.

 

[Big Blue]

Since when did you start speaking for the entire board??? LOL!

I definitely don't expect you to ever admit it when you're dead wrong. You and others don't have the character and integrity to operate like stand up guys typically do, but I'm sure others on the boards are noticing.

You appear to be in full blown irony mode today.

 

[au4life_rz]

The vaccines are miraculous. See the hospitals and deaths of vaccinated. See Iceland.

Nice deflection, (and regarding the new vaccines, I've never failed to say otherwise).

It's just that you were saying they were perfect, miraculous, and making foolish, scientifically impossible guarantees over and again. I kept telling you that since the vaccines were so new, and COVID so weird, we were likely to require some tweaks, adjustments, and have kinks to work through.

Even in the face of the information that YOU posted yourself a couple of posts up, would you really fail to admit that you were wrong?

 

[Stumpfan]

Nice deflection, (and regarding the new vaccines, I've never failed to say otherwise).

It's just that you were saying they were perfect, miraculous, and making foolish, scientifically impossible guarantees over and again. I kept telling you that since the vaccines were so new, and COVID so weird, we were likely to require some tweaks, adjustments, and have kinks to work through.

Even in the face of the information that YOU posted yourself a couple of posts up, would you really fail to admit that you were wrong?

They are miraculous. See our vaccinated cases, deaths and hospitals.

 

[au4life_rz]

You appear to be in full blown irony mode today.

And you are being your typical jerkish self. You are full of stuffing. You talked a lot of smack too, and poked fun in regards to my saying that the fully vaccinated population might be able to maintain a significant viral load, and serve as hidden spreaders leading to surge etc.. Did you come back and admit it when it was clear that you were wrong???

You also argued continually that the mRNA vaccines weren't new, and scoffing when it was clearly pointed out, that they were indeed new, (which is why they are requiring tweaks to the process now). Have you admitted you were wrong about that?

You can't find a case where I was clearly wrong, and failed to come back and admit it, (and apologize if I'd been popping off at the mouth, talking smack). It's quite rich that you feel the need to try and call me out for something that I've NOT done, when you have done that same thing yourself.

 

[Jay G. Tate]

If you're in these Covid threads on Covid Corner, you should expect things to be rough. It's a flame board. It's for people who wanna flame.

 

[Big Blue]

And you are being your typical jerkish self. You are full of stuffing. You talked a lot of smack too, and poked fun in regards to my saying that the fully vaccinated population might be able to maintain a significant viral load, and serve as hidden spreaders leading to surge etc.. Did you come back and admit it when it was clear that you were wrong???

You also argued continually that the mRNA vaccines weren't new, and scoffing when it was clearly pointed out, that they were indeed new, (which is why they are requiring tweaks to the process now). Have you admitted you were wrong about that?

You can't find a case where I was clearly wrong, and failed to come back and admit it, (and apologize if I'd been popping off at the mouth, talking smack). It's quite rich that you feel the need to try and call me out for something that I've NOT done, when you have done that same thing yourself.

Yeah, disagreeing with you or calling you out on your ridiculous hypocrisy is being "jerkish." You mischaracterize or misrepresent what others say and then accuse them of misunderstanding you or of lying. Then you come back and break your arm patting yourself on the back for points you misrepresent yourself as having made. It's always everybody else and never you. Truly amazing.

 

[Big Blue]

If you're in these Covid threads on Covid Corner, you should expect things to be rough. It's a flame board. It's for people who wanna flame.

You getting complaints, Jay?

 

[Jay G. Tate]

You getting complaints, Jay?

Yessir — from some of the main combatants. It's very strange.

 

[Big Blue]

Yessir — from some of the main combatants. It's very strange.

By strange, I'm reading utterly unsurprising.

 

[Big Blue]

Nice deflection, (and regarding the new vaccines, I've never failed to say otherwise).

It's just that you were saying they were perfect, miraculous, and making foolish, scientifically impossible guarantees over and again. I kept telling you that since the vaccines were so new, and COVID so weird, we were likely to require some tweaks, adjustments, and have kinks to work through.

Even in the face of the information that YOU posted yourself a couple of posts up, would you really fail to admit that you were wrong?

Can you cite a single instance of @Stumpfan saying the vaccines were perfect?

 

[AUBK]

Does it though? Has there been any evidence presented?

Is this a serious question??

Yessir — from some of the main combatants. It's very strange.

Tell me it's Jim in Scranton!!