Yeah absolutely —-to school your children the way you want —-sounds terrible
Vaccine vs, natural immunity
- Thread starter ff4autigers
- Start date
Natural immunity is at the very least as effective as a vaccine against the variants including delta
The gov. should include confirmed cases of C19 in their report showing confirmed vaccinated people.
That’s the real immunity in this country
What are you talking about. The vaccine rolled out roughly 6-7 months ago for the public. You can’t efficiently run a study until some time has passed, to then accurately collect data on immunity or not be natural immunity which has been being studied far longer. Are just playing dumb or do you clearly not grasp how that works?
A study was released over a year ago. You're saying there was no study involved in that study. I'm asking you to explain what constitutes study taking place if a study is released and that doesn't count for some unknown reason
How is a study released a year ago on a vaccine efficacy when the vaccine hasn’t even been being given to the public that long?
Yep that sounds great, unfortunately it’s not reality and most aren’t going to pay for an antibody test, they are just gonna say “that’s violating my rights” etc
Because you said the vaccine has been studied for 6 months and that's not true as you've now acknowledged
My whole point, which you’ve clearly twisted or failed to see is that far more studies need to be done to compare vaccine Vs natural immunity and the efficacy and ability of each. The vaccine hasn’t been out a year for the public, especially for the majority of age groups. No study done a year ago on the vaccine can be wholly accurate, that’s my point. More data is needed for both. This virus and vaccine are still very early stages. This isn’t the flu that’s been researched for 30 years
You said the vaccine has been studied for 6 months. That's incorrect. BTW the flu vaccine you get is different every year
Oh Jesus dude you need to read properly, I said the vaccine has only been out to the public for roughly 6 months and even then it takes time after to start a proper study on efficacy of it compared to natural immunity. Jesus man drink some coffee and wake up
No shit and they’ve researched it for a very long time to be able to adjust some each year in what they anticipate will happen and 15-20k people still die of the flu every year, including kids
Here is what you said:
My problem is they’ve only studied this stuff for roughly 6 months now.
This is incorrect.
But if it's new every year how have they researched the new vaccine for a very long time? We've already established you don't think studies can start until after the first dose is given to the public.
It would just increase the enrollment at bama, because I doubt everyone who pulls their children out of school because of that is going to take the time to teach them properly.
It wasn’t an “extremely limited” trial you gigantic boob. The clinical trials, which skipped exactly 0.0 steps involved tens of thousands of participants (over 76,000 between Pfizer and Moderna alone).
Jesus guy. It’s the same vaccine that they make micro adjustments to if they feel is needed based on assumptions of variables they feel may be needed for that year. Once vaccine has rolled out they then start new studies on the efficacy of that vaccine and use that data for the following year. Is it that hard to understand??
I think you're the one who's still asleep. You're claiming that a study released over a year ago wasn't a study. So what was it?
Additionally, how can a brand new flu vaccine have been studied for a long time if it hasn't been out yet?
You are correct that the vaccine has been available to the public since December (7ish months), but I’m assuming he is referring to clinical trials which started March 2020. Studies on safety and efficacy are a part of phases 1-3 of a clinical trial. Pfizer’s phase 3 started almost exactly one year ago. Not stirring the pot, just stating what I believe he is referring to.
That is correct. Studies don't start when a vaccine is released to the public. How absurd is that?
No I’m not ass hat, I’m saying that study isn’t wholly accurate when the major vaccine rollout has only been going on for 6-7 months. Studies happening now and more that will continue to happen will be far more accurate than any study that was being rushed just to get emergency approval of a vaccine which bye the government has allowed the companies to have no responsibility for. So if there deaths, major fall back, etc, Pfizer, and etc aren’t going to be held liable. They won’t even stand behind their vaccine lol
I bet our doctor is telling these kids that have had COVID prior and have natural immunity NOT to get vaccinated. And he would be right!
Yes I know that’s what he’s alluding to but my point is those were very limited and rushed studies to get the vaccine approved for emergency use. The data they can get now with millions vaccinated form new studies will be far better. That’s my point, more studies and data are needed to really compare vaccine vs natural immunity.
Which phases/steps were skipped (other than the multiple rounds of having to lobby for/raise funding to move to the next phase)?
How does 46,000 trial participants (Pfizer) and 30,000 trial participants (Moderna) compare to the number of participants in other clinical trials for past vaccines?
I'll offer you a few:
HPV - Gardasil had a clinical trial with 29,000 participants.
Meningitis - the two most popular vaccines for meningitis had clinical trials with 3100 and 4500 participants respectively.
To date, there has be no clinical trial to demonstrate the efficacy of the tetanus/diphtheria vaccines.
You just use Wikipedia to try and list a few studies in the past lol that proves absolutely nothing and I never said anything was skipped dumbass. I said current studies and future ones now that the vaccine has been out a while and lions have gotten it, will be far more accurate with far greater data. That’s fact. If you’re ant to be an idiot and try and argue that go for it but you’d be wrong
I haven't used Wikipedia for anything.
The rest I think I'm going to need a translator for. Could your retype, this time in English?
Do you believe they started studying the vaccine before or after the first dose was given to the public over 7 months ago?
Effective how? Latest data is the vaccines are still holding up from 88-90+ percent effective at stopping serious illness and death. This is far more effective than the flu vaccine btw.
People seem to have a misconception that the vaccine is 100% effective which has never happened in history.
“you can still get covid if you get the vaccine.” = “the bullets still hit you if you wear a bulletproof vest.”
I don’t trust any data being published because it’s all horse 💩. Nothing you read or hear can be trusted anymore so I’ll make my own decisions on what to do.
Dang. I offer a sound plan, and you look for ANY reason to shoot it down, and your only recourse is, "Get the vaccine". You may have a job with the leading authorities who are pushing this.
If we resort to mandates like France has done, (and which official are now pushing for here), I guarantee you many people won't mind paying a few dollars for the antigen test, as opposed to having to show a vaccine passport to get into sporting events, concerts etc.
As soon as this thing hit, once it was pronounced as a "pandemic", and there were some signals that it wasn't a naturally occurring virus, I told people that we'd likely end up in a situation where vaccine passports and other such things would come into play. Here we are just a little over a year later.
You're equivocating. The bottom line is that we do NOT have any data on the vaccines from the mid-term or long-term, and this is indeed the very first time this technology was pushed across the line for use by the general public.
Even factoring in the trials, we still don't have any data in those two timeframes, so that does carry risk. We know the vaccine itself won't kill most people immediately, (they are very safe in that regard), but beyond that, we don't know much at all, no matter how many people equivocate and say, "the science behind them is solid". We are learning a lot, and likely will be for years into the future.
But you are missing KEY points as you typically do. The DTaP, (tetanus/diphtheria) vaccine was built on the classical, tried and true vaccine technology, so we already had TONS of usage data, and knowledge to have a much better idea that it was safe throughout the full life-cycle.
However, since we do NOT have this type of usage data for these completely new vaccine technologies, we can't say for 100% certain, that we KNOW they are safe throughout the full life-cycle. They are super safe in the immediate timeframe, and a tad more than a year out, but beyond that, we simply do not know and it's shameful to try and trick people as if we do have this knowledge.
You are correct, but honestly, stop and think about it. While most people do believe this, where did they get that belief? Where did it come from?
I don't know why you're disagreeing with me. It it is a factual statement that the vaccine has been studied for longer than 6 months. There is no argument to show that the vaccine began being studied 6 months ago.
Additionally, there's no long term studies on ANYTHING! Where are the long term studies on the taco bell nacho fries? How irresponsible of taco bell to roll those out without generations worth of data to prove there's no long term health effects!
Nope, I'm not. Other vaccines using the "classical, tried and true" tech ended up having terrible adverse effects (all of which showed up within a month or so of vaccination). Not to mention, the HPV and meningitis vaccines also use this so-called "classical" tech. They had clinical trials.
And I put that in there among two others (I could have chosen more) not to say "clinical trials don't matter." I just mentioned it along with the others to show that the clinical trials for Pfizer and Moderna were not truncated, tiny, skimpy or anything of the sort. No phases were skipped, no steps left out, and they had as many or more trial participants than other vaccines.
Answered in the other thread.
