Question to the unvaccinated
- Thread starter NashWarEagle
- Start date
I don't think many people worldwide are actually antivax. I'm anti covid 19 vax. Of course polio or some other vaccinations are great for humanity. Covid is unworthy of a vaccine. You don't even know you have it unless you take a test. And you can still get the virus.
Now we’re getting down to where the rubber meets the road.
You are one of the deeply addled people who don’t even think Covid presents a serious health threat.
Thanks for clearing that up. It’s always good to know what level of crazy someone is using as home base.
So I guess you think that everyone who has been clamoring about a lack of FDA approval is standing in line to get vaccinated right now?
The Nature article bakc in May is probably the one you have read that specifically deals with bone marrow and plasma, but there have been other similar studies. Here is one example that discusses memory B cells...
Vaccination boosts naturally enhanced neutralizing breadth to SARS-CoV-2 one year after infection
Over one year after its inception, the coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19) pandemic caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) remains difficult to control despite the availability of several excellent vaccines. Progress in controlling the pandemic is slowed by the...
I’m goung to disagree here. I don’t agree fully but Scott Gottlieb thinks cases are 10-20 times higher than reported. That’s 1-2 million people a day. Let’s be conservative and say 500,000 a day get it who haven’t had Covid or the vaccine. Add to that the 500,000 per day getting their first shot. That’s a million per day getting protection. We are at 200 million with a shot now. How many can we guess haven’t been vaccinated or had Covid before out of the remaining 135 million? To be conservative, let’s say 1/3 since most estimate 100 million have had Covid. So now we are at 245 million with protection. I think between delta and vaccinations, we can get to 300 million by next summer. I also think I’ve probably underestimated the 45 million above and the 500,000 per day getting Covid. I think our last surge will be this winter and it will still be delta. Delta is terrible but the only bright spot is it will get us past the worst of this sooner than later.
Every study done on asymptomatic carriers has show negligible differences in the confirmed cases vs those who got it and never tested. Sweden in particular thought this was the way to get there and went several months without lockdowns and distancing mandates like their Scandinavian neighbors. Their rates of cases, hospitalizations and deaths from COVID were exponentially higher than Finland and Norway. When they conducted random tests to measure how close to "herd immunity" they were, they found that only a few percentage points more people showed evidence of previous infection over those with documented positive tests.
38 million is fine. But it's, what, 11-12% of the population? And many of those overlap with the vaccinated group (they got it and later got vaccinated anyway). The threshold estimated for herd immunity is 70-75%. Even if you assumed zero overlap with the vaccinated, my point remains true - whether we get to herd immunity or not depends overwhelmingly on people getting vaccinated, on the order of 6 to 1 or more. Natural spread isn't the way.
There's literally people posting threads this morning about the death of their loved ones. Truly an embarrassing post. Millions of people have died but you aren't directly affected so you don't give a shit because you're a selfish asshole
The Nature article bakc in May is probably the one you have read that specifically deals with bone marrow and plasma, but there have been other similar studies. Here is one example that discusses memory B cells...
Vaccination boosts naturally enhanced neutralizing breadth to SARS-CoV-2 one year after infection
Over one year after its inception, the coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19) pandemic caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) remains difficult to control despite the availability of several excellent vaccines. Progress in controlling the pandemic is slowed by the...www.biorxiv.org
I hope it gives lifetime immunity to severe disease but I just don’t think they will know that for a while. If it does, I’ve read that being vaccinated then getting Covid will give similar results.
The cdc estimated that something like 80 million has had it here. Other studies say 100 million.
As I mentioned before, there haven't been any tests/surveys indicating far higher presence of antibodies indicating previous asymptomatic infection in the general population. A little higher? Yeah, which you'd expect. But expecting the numbers to jump from 11-12% of the population with natural immunity to 20% or more isn't borne out by any data.
Getting to herd immunity rests on getting more people vaccinated. They will make up to overwhelming majority of the group, but an order of at least 6 to 1.
I've seen a lot of estimates, but no real data to back it up. Only study I know of was done in Stockholm where they didn't find that a significantly higher percentage of people had unknowingly contracted the virus and developed antibodies over the verified and tested numbers they already knew.
It never ceases to amaze me that hundreds of thousands of people can die from an illness just in our country alone and there can still be people who basically deny it is even happening. My wife told me a couple of weeks ago about a guy with whom she graduated HS who was on facebook saying that the reports of the hospitals being full of COVID patients was fake. He said he knew people who had been to the hospital and told him it wasn't true. He then had other former classmates who live in his community and currently work at the hospital in question who told him that was incorrect and gave him current numbers of patients, beds, etc. He still denied it. What can you do with that? I believe that even if he were taken to the hospital and shown in person he still would deny it. At this point, this whole thing has become religious. Some people are going to believe what they already believe regardless of facts or reality or any sort of evidence.
Good point. Of course, we are swiftly headed towards a high percentage of kids being immune. COVID is sweeping through the schools right now like a California wildfire.
You think the cdc just pulled it out of their ass? No. Also, we test way less here per capita than almost anywhere there are developed countries. You can’t compare Stockholm to the entire US.
Yep. They will keep getting infected because many parents won’t get their kids vaccinated and under 12 trials are taking a while. I laugh weekly when they send the numbers out. They decided to strongly encourage masks. My daughter said only 3-4 per class don’t mask now.
No. But estimates are just that - estimates. It's a statistical model which may or may not be entirely accurate, especially with a novel virus. The best way to get a more accurate statistical estimate would be to take random samples across the country among those who have never had a verified positive test nor gotten the vaccine, but the chances of that are between slim and none.
Yeah, it's a really hard thing to determine, but seroprevalence studies seem to indicate that a 20% guesstimate is not completely out of the question, especially considering that the antibodies these tests target are not always present even for those who have been infected and who have immunity. Some possibly relevant links below. I guess my main point is that a statement that we are nowhere close to herd immunity is not well supported and is somewhat speculative. We very well could be within 10-15% of that level. Even if not, we are swiftly headed there thanks to delta.
Estimated SARS-CoV-2 Seroprevalence in the US
This cross-sectional study examines the prevalence of persons with SARS-CoV-2 antibodies across the US and changes from July to September 2020.
jamanetwork.com
SARS-CoV-2 Seroprevalence in US Patients Receiving Dialysis 1 Year After COVID-19
This cross-sectional study uses data from a dialysis organization in the US to assess the seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies among patients receiving dialysis and to estimate the seroprevalence among the adult population 1 year into the COVID-19 pandemic.
jamanetwork.com
I'd settle for just a couple of years of immunity to severe disease. That would get us over this initial hump and allow us to settle into something more like how we deal with the flu.
Yeah, and even aside from the deaths of people I know well personally, I also know multiple people who have survived COVID but whose lives seem likely to never be the same after recovery. They have resultant severe long term health issues.
All we can do is estimate but there are going to be a ton more vaccinated by mRNA or dejta over the next 8-12 months.
I think we get easily that with just natural immunity and vaccines by themselves much less having both. I think each time you get it, the clock starts over and the immunity gets better. I really believe the highly vaccinated countries will be mostly over this in the next 12 months barring a crazy variant. The rest of the world may need at least 18-24 months. I’m no globalists but it’s crazy when you look at the richest countries compared to the rest of the world. That’s how we got delta from India.
Looks like the CDC has been doing studies for that.
Cases, Data, and Surveillance
Cases, data, and surveillance to track and analyze COVID-19.
www.cdc.gov
I'm not selfish, why didn't they just get the vaccine? It's a question, I answered it asshole. See where it says "question to the unvaccinated"? Fohb foolish little pusillanimous furry.
I absolutely do not. If you look at statistics, you cannot convince me. What is the most liberal death toll? 0.03%? I don't care. If you aren't even uncomfortable, much less sick, I don't care. I'm not scared. If I was I could get the stab. I wouldn't want to be around you if you had an upper respiratory infection or the flu. Hell no. But covid? No. I stand by your statement. It's not a concern to me or anyone I know.
You said the virus isn't worthy of a vaccine and that no one gets sick from it. You're an asshole if you don't care about millions of people dying.
Who said no one gets sick from it? That's stupid. Don't put words in my mouth. The democrats stacked elderly on top of each other and they most certainly got sick fool.
No not at all. Still hasn’t been on the market long enough. You are all guinea pigs.
Here's what you said about a virus that has killed millions of people:
Covid is unworthy of a vaccine. You don't even know you have it unless you take a test.
You're an asshole
Yeah fool. Can you not comprehend? Are you that much of a sheep? I'm not 90 years old stacked with infected people. Your people did that. Not me. Imagine how low the death rate would be if we just left everything alone.
You're an idiot. You said there's no point in creating a vaccine for a virus that's killed millions of people. You said a virus that's killed millions of people doesn't even get people sick. That's because you're an idiot. I don't have to imagine anything you shitforbrains. "My people"
Its not killed millions of people. Millions of people have died and tested positive on a pcr test. Huge difference. The survival rate is so high it's ridiculous. Untold millions have been infected and never knew it. Based on numbers we know, 99.97% of people are fine. If this were a bad flu season like 2016, I would be encouraging masks and social distancing. Not covid. Tell me what has you so scared. Do you doubt the survival rate is above 99%? Do you deny that?
Would you be saying that there's no need for a vaccine that could have saved family members if you'd lost loved ones? It would truly astonishing to say you don't think it's worth researching a cure that could save you or someone you cared about. Though judging by your responses so far, it seems the people you care about includes yourself and no one else.
He literally said no one gets sick from it. If you agree with him you're a shitforbrains just like him.
If my whole family died, it won't change the truth. The survival rate is what? Over 99? Well over 99%?
If your whole family died and you still believed there was no point in trying to save them, doesn't that confirm my assessment that you're an asshole who only cares about himself?
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