Boy, do I hesitate to do this but here goes.

[au4life_rz]

Depends on how far you take it. I could put myself in a bubble and never leave my home if my sole goal was to mitigate risk. It’s about trade offs. The lower the risk (I.e. if I’m risking the equivalent of a cold) I’m not doing anything to avoid it because the downside is basically nil.

It goes without saying that I'm asking whether we should manage risks that we know about, in a normal, balanced and intelligent manner.

You indicated that we should just carpe diem and YOLO our way through life, and I simply reminded folks that appropriate risk management is INDEED at really important best practice. Your post didn't reflect that important fact.

 

[AuburnStaley]

It goes without saying that I'm asking whether we should manage risks that we know about, in a normal, balanced and intelligent manner.

You indicated that we should just carpe diem and YOLO our way through life, and I simply reminded folks that appropriate risk management is INDEED at really important best practice. Your post didn't reflect that important fact.

What do you recommend?

 

[au4life_rz]

What do you recommend?

That we manage known risks, (i.e. viable risks), appropriately.

 

[kdxtiger]

What you've said does not add up. You said that the new vaccines give us long-lasting and robust T cell responses, and that despite immunological efficacy from the vaccines falling to 33%, that the T-cell response remains strong, and THAT'S what will provide protection against severe illness and death.

Then, when I asked you if what you said is true, then why would we need boosters, you are saying that the boosters will enable the T-cell response. So either what you said initially is true, and we don't need boosters, or it's false. Do you understand the logical fallacy?

Hmm…I never said anything about long lasting. I said the T cell effectiveness against Omicron is just as good as it was against alpha. The mutations in the protein spikes of Omicron allow it to overcome the vaccine antibody response. However, the T cell effectiveness is not affected by the spike mutations.

 

[AuburnStaley]

That we manage known risks, (i.e. viable risks), appropriately.

For example, with omicron. We know the risk or catching it is very high. We know the effects are very minimal. How do you think we should appropriately manage this risk? What do you recommend?

 

[au4life_rz]

Hmm…I never said anything about long lasting. I said the T cell effectiveness against Omicron is just as good as it was against alpha. The mutations in the protein spikes of Omicron allow it to overcome the vaccine antibody response. However, the T cell effectiveness is not affected by the spike mutations.

You're still dodging the question. Your two posts create a logical fallacy. If the T-cell effectiveness is good enough to manage adequate reduction in severe illness and death, then why do we need the cycle of boosters. You then come back to insinuate that we need the boosters to have the T-cell response, so one of your two posts isn't true.

Do you have a study to link etc.?

 

[Stumpfan]

For example, with omicron. We know the risk or catching it is very high. We know the effects are very minimal. How do you think we should appropriately manage this risk? What do you recommend?

It looks like it’s way less severe for those protected by vaccines or NI but nothing is certain right now. I’m not doing anything different though since I’m boosted. If somebody is vaccinated then no reason to change behavior.

 

[ALPHADOO]

So these basketball games being cancelled won’t be cancelled if I don’t watch cnn?

No they will still be canceled because there are plenty of stupid people still out there. It will just go away for you.

 

[AuburnStaley]

It looks like it’s way less severe for those protected by vaccines or NI but nothing is certain right now. I’m not doing anything different though since I’m boosted. If somebody is vaccinated then no reason to change behavior.

I think that’s fair. And if someone else has done their own calculus on the subject, determined that they fall within a category where the risk is minimal, and decide to roll the dice as unvaccinated or unboosted, then do you agree that they can live with the consequences or lack thereof without it being other’s concern?

 

[au4life_rz]

I have no idea. Do you think there’s a chance in hell that the ones that suffer the most during omicron will be the unvaccinated or the vaccinated? The vaccinated that need to worry are the immunicompromised and the very elderly. The avg age of those vaccinated still dying is 81. It is 69 for unvaccinated. I expect a lot less deaths for omicron but there will be some deaths. I’m just glad that delta may be gone soon. That was a mutha fvcka.

Stop switching and flipping topics. I asked you a specific question, and you answered that you have no idea. PUt the rest of that crap in another post.

My question to you is quite pertinent to your definitive assertions that the vaccines definitely provide GREAT protection against Omicron. That type of silly cheerleading propaganda could lead to folks unnecessarily putting themselves at risk. You've done it over and again since the beginning of this thing, and been subsequently proven wrong many, many times. When will you learn. Wait until real science is doing, and we have an adequate data sample size etc.

 

[Stumpfan]

No they will still be canceled because there are plenty of stupid people still out there. It will just go away for you.

So it won’t go away for me if I can’t watch AU men play bball or my niece play either. Sucks.

 

[ALPHADOO]

So it won’t go away for me if I can’t watch AU men play bball or my niece play either. Sucks.

Booo. Sucks to be you . Sorry bro.

 

[Stumpfan]

I think that’s fair. And if someone else has done their own calculus on the subject, determined that they fall within a category where the risk is minimal, and decide to roll the dice as unvaccinated or unboosted, then do you agree that they can live with the consequences or lack thereof without it being other’s concern?

Not if it causes hospitals to be overwhelmed. That’s the first place they are going if they get seriously ill. The hospitals are the only real concern imo after delta gone soon.

 

[Stumpfan]

Booo. Sucks to be you . Sorry bro.

Yea, that’s two of some of my favorite things to do. Almost two years ago, both teams were going to the ncaa tourney and they got cancelled.

 

[ALPHADOO]

Not if it causes hospitals to be overwhelmed. That’s the first place they are going if they get seriously ill. The hospitals are the only real concern imo after delta gone soon.

I'm sure 99.7% of everyone will be just fine.

 

[au4life_rz]

For example, with omicron. We know the risk or catching it is very high. We know the effects are very minimal. How do you think we should appropriately manage this risk? What do you recommend?

I simply wanted to deal with your general advice, and indicate that managing risk is smart. We can change topics a bit and talk specifically about Omicron, but that should have been another sub-thread.

If initial indications turn out to be true, and Omicron is nothing more than a cold of sorts, then we should treat it as such and be CERTAIN that we don't do anything stupid and put tons of global economies at risk. Then, we should be absolutely certain that we don't cancel any professors, scientists and researchers who point out that the models used to justify such severe reactions, may be/are faulty, (which happened with the initial management of COVID).

 

[Stumpfan]

Stop switching and flipping topics. I asked you a specific question, and you answered that you have no idea. PUt the rest of that crap in another post.

My question to you is quite pertinent to your definitive assertions that the vaccines definitely provide GREAT protection against Omicron. That type of silly cheerleading propaganda could lead to folks unnecessarily putting themselves at risk. You've done it over and again since the beginning of this thing, and been subsequently proven wrong many, many times. When will you learn. Wait until real science is doing, and we have an adequate data sample size etc.

Lol. It is a fact that vaccines protected against severe disease with Alpha, delta and now omicron. It is a fact that over 80-90% of deaths in the US have been the unvaccinated. The few that died while fully vaccinated were immunocompromised or very old with an avg age of 81. Next.

 

[au4life_rz]

Lol. It is a fact that vaccines protected against severe disease with Alpha, delta and now omicron. It is a fact that over 80-90% of deaths in the US have been the unvaccinated. The few that died while fully vaccinated were immunocompromised or very old with an avg age of 81. Next.

Stop lying. While we HOPE that good protection will be provided with new strains such as Omicron, we saw that unfortunately, fully vaccinated folks still caught the initial strain, and definitely caught and spread Delta. Lying doesn't help us avoid surges, which we DIRELY need to do.

Folks, don't get sucked in by the narrative's propaganda. Use common sense, and continue to be smart and social distance, mask up, and use all of the typical cleanliness best practices that you use when a bug is bouncing around the office. Don't believe the hype and feel that you're bullet-proof simply because you're vaccinated. You can still maintain viral load, allow it to mutate in you, catch it, and pass it to others. #Truefffe

 

[Stumpfan]

Stop lying. While we HOPE that good protection will be provided with new strains such as Omicron, we saw that unfortunately, fully vaccinated folks still caught the initial strain, and definitely caught and spread Delta. Lying doesn't help us avoid surges, which we DIRELY need to do.

Folks, don't get sucked in by the narrative's propaganda. Use common sense, and continue to be smart and social distance, mask up, and use all of the typical cleanliness best practices that you use when a bug is bouncing around the office. Don't believe the hype and feel that you're bullet-proof simply because you're vaccinated. You can still maintain viral load, allow it to mutate in you, catch it, and pass it to others. #Truefffe

Dude, I’m talking about hospitalizations and deaths. Next.

 

[kdxtiger]

You're still dodging the question. Your two posts create a logical fallacy. If the T-cell effectiveness is good enough to manage adequate reduction in severe illness and death, then why do we need the cycle of boosters. You then come back to insinuate that we need the boosters to have the T-cell response, so one of your two posts isn't true.

Do you have a study to link etc.?

I’m not dodging anything. Antibody response and T cell response degrades over time. That’s why you need a booster. I never said anything about the longevity of the vaccine in my original post. There is no logically fallacy. I said the T cell effectiveness against the two variants is the same. The lung doctor in this video explains it.

 

[Scuff]

An article is linked to the sentence in my previous post - reposted below:

It's not typical for viral strains resulting from mutation to produce more severe symptoms but it isn't unheard of, either

An article is linked to the sentence in my previous post - reposted below:

It's not typical for viral strains resulting from mutation to produce more severe symptoms but it isn't unheard of, either

Every study I've seen about this - once you look at the actual data, shows any severity increase is tied to immunity changes, not overall rise in morbidity. I'm open to be proven wrong.

Viruses ultimately do not want to kill their host, as it kills them off as well. Mutations trend toward - dare I say it - the sniffles. The common cold. Which is what Covid was engineered from.

 

[DavistonTiger]

Facepalm
..

 

[au4life_rz]

I’m not dodging anything. Antibody response and T cell response degrades over time. That’s why you need a booster. I never said anything about the longevity of the vaccine in my original post. There is no logically fallacy. I said the T cell effectiveness against the two variants is the same. The lung doctor in this video explains it.

View embedded media

Yes. Protection degrades over time. I was simply trying to make sure that folks don't misunderstand your initial post which seems to be saying that despite the antibodies fading, that T-cell protection was still great, and that is all that's needed since it "protects against severe disease and hospitalization". In other words, "You're still good".

I hope that proves to be the case when all is said and done, but I humbly feel we need more data before that can be stated definitively. Until then, folks need to continue being smart and managing it "like it's hot", ($1 to Snoop-Dee-Double-O).

 

[au4life_rz]

I’m not dodging anything. Antibody response and T cell response degrades over time. That’s why you need a booster. I never said anything about the longevity of the vaccine in my original post. There is no logically fallacy. I said the T cell effectiveness against the two variants is the same. The lung doctor in this video explains it.

View embedded media

@Stumpfan , you might enjoy the video as another data point, (though it kind of goes against what you've been preaching all last week). #MoreDataIsGood

 

[Stumpfan]

@Stumpfan , you might enjoy the video as another data point, (though it kind of goes against what you've been preaching all last week). #MoreDataIsGood

Two jabs is golden vs serious disease for most of us. Maybe that will fade after a year though.

 

[au4life_rz]

Two jabs is golden vs serious disease for most of us. Maybe that will fade after a year though.

If true, then why are we being told to boost after 6 months, and gearing up to get everyone into a constant re-boost cycle? Also, do you believe the data he gave on natural immunity versus vaccine immunity compared to the in vitro pseudo virus "study" you were harping about?

 

[gurutas]

I'm worried about the next variant and the next.

Each variant is getting weaker. It started in South Africa and even the doctor who discovered it could not believe the alarm being caused by it. Great Britain claims to have had one death from it but that has not been confirmed. We have lived our entire lives with colds and flu, which is what this is.

 

[Stumpfan]

If true, then why are we being told to boost after 6 months, and gearing up to get everyone into a constant re-boost cycle? Also, do you believe the data he gave on natural immunity versus vaccine immunity compared to the in vitro pseudo virus "study" you were harping about?

Because of infection, not severe disease. It’s a 3 shot vaccine. The first 2 shots are too close together. Do you not really know this stuff?

 

[Stumpfan]

Each variant is getting weaker. It started in South Africa and even the doctor who discovered it could not believe the alarm being caused by it. Great Britain claims to have had one death from it but that has not been confirmed. We have lived our entire lives with colds and flu, which is what this is.

Each variant? This is the first one that appears weaker.

 

[sjweagle]

A new study out of Columbia University says the Omicron variant is “markedly resistant” to vaccines and boosters might not do much to help.

The concluding statement is sobering:

“It is not too far-fetched to think that this [COVID-19] is now only a mutation or two away from being pan-resistant to current antibodies,” it says. “We must devise strategies that anticipate the evolutional direction of the virus and develop agents that target better conserved viral elements.”

https://www.biorxiv.org/.../2021.12.14.472719v1.full.pdf

Paging Dr. stumPEE.

 

[au4life_rz]

Because of infection, not severe disease. It’s a 3 shot vaccine. The first 2 shots are too close together. Do you not really know this stuff?

I'm trying to get you to think objectively and SNAP out of the severe delusion. In addition, you're not answering all of the questions.

1. So you DO feel that we need the boosters, (i.e. that the first two shots are insufficient protection)???

2. Do you believe the data he gave on natural immunity versus vaccine immunity compared to the in vitro pseudo virus "study" you were harping about?

 

[Stumpfan]

I'm trying to get you to think objectively and SNAP out of the severe delusion. In addition, you're not answering all of the questions.

1. So you DO feel that we need the boosters, (i.e. that the first two shots are insufficient protection)???

2. Do you believe the data he gave on natural immunity versus vaccine immunity compared to the in vitro pseudo virus "study" you were harping about?

1) not insufficient but not the max protection all 3 give. Some knew this was a 3 shot vaccine in January.
2) different studies show different things but two shots doesn’t give the max protection as I said above. Three shot vaccine has the best protection over NI.

Do you really not know this stuff?

 

[au4life_rz]

1) not insufficient but not the max protection all 3 give. Some knew this was a 3 shot vaccine in January.
2) different studies show different things but two shots doesn’t give the max protection as I said above. Three shot vaccine has the best protection over NI.

Do you really not know this stuff?

Okay, so if the first two shots are indeed sufficient as you have just said; that begs the question as to WHY the leading authorities and agencies still want us to get into this cycle of constant boosters. Think. THINK!

The video that he linked showed the natural immunity levels to be higher than vaccine induced levels of protection. That blows what you have been preaching based off of an admittedly deficient, in vitro estimation based on pseudo viruses, out of the water.

 

[Stumpfan]

Okay, so if the first two shots are indeed sufficient as you have just said; that begs the question as to WHY the leading authorities and agencies still want us to get into this cycle of constant boosters. Think. THINK!

The video that he linked showed the natural immunity levels to be higher than vaccine induced levels of protection. That blows what you have been preaching based off of an admittedly deficient, in vitro estimation based on pseudo viruses, out of the water.

Nope. I’ve tried to explain in it to you. Two shots is great for most for severe disease but booster is ideal. It’s a three shot vaccine. The three shots have been shown to have greater protection than NI. I started a thread on it on the political board. Again, it’s a three shot vaccine. Dr Peter Hotez said this by tweet in January. The two shots were too close together to not wane.

 

[au4life_rz]

Nope. I’ve tried to explain in it to you. Two shots is great for most for severe disease but booster is ideal. It’s a three shot vaccine. The three shots have been shown to have greater protection than NI. I started a thread on it on the political board. Again, it’s a three shot vaccine. Dr Peter Hotez said this by tweet in January. The two shots were too close together to not wane.

LOL!!! So, you said for many months that the new vaccines were absolute, unqualified miracles and guaranteed us that they would provide long lasting protection for years, (based on the latest propaganda'ish tweet you'd copied). Despite being warned by me dozens of time to slow your roll, and wait for a reasonable sample size, and to wait for real scientific work to be done, and to watch out for baked "studies" and data, and to EXPECT surprising twists and turns with this weird pathogen etc.. Now, you've changed and are in essence saying that the new vaccines weren't effective, so we need three shots. Two shots are sufficient and great, but they really aren't, so we need a third. We'll revisit this post if we do indeed end up in a cycle of perpetual boosting.

Now, you're jumping out on the thinnest of limbs saying that it's definitively proven that 3 shots is better than natural immunity, (OMG, just SMH...), based on an in vitro pseudo virus "projection" of the protection that is conferred. Do you realize that we are just beginning to compile data on the boosting? Do you remember the thread where I'd pointed out late this spring that the spacing on the dosages may not be optimal, and might yield better results after we learned more and they were tweaked???

You're saying now that "the two shots were too close together not to wane", but back then you SWORE up and down that we were guaranteed to have lasting immunity, "with great B-cell and T-cell responses". You've been AWFUL and wrong too many times to count. At least be man enough to admit it when you're proven wrong.

 

[Stumpfan]

Repeat: No one has died from Omicron

7 deaths in the UK now. We aren’t at a “cold” level yet with Covid.

 

[Tigger444a]

I'm worried about the next variant and the next.

Only a total idiot would not worry where all this is headed. When you are 18, bullet proof and invisible your stupidity is understandable but when you have science to back this up as a health issue that has been allowed to be made political, and you still believe the political bullshit, it's beyond stupid and so are those who believe it. Some 800,000 plus tells you that you are an idiot if you still doubt the seriousness of this virus.

 

[au4life_rz]

7 deaths in the UK now. We aren’t at a “cold” level yet with Covid.

View embedded media

You've read Topol for quite some time now and you love to quote his tweets. What do you think his most common position it/has been??? To promote maximum vaccination, or some other goal?

Viewing his positions post facto, do you now think that he has used every opportunity to push vaccination, even if it involved a bit of exaggeration and FUD?

Has it been confirmed by several reputable sources that those deaths occurred? If they did, what was the profile of the dead. How old, how fragile, what were the co-morbidities if any? Do any people in that general profile, (e.g. old, sick etc.), die of pneumonia, bad colds or the flu???

 

[Stumpfan]

You've read Topol for quite some time now and you love to quote his tweets. What do you think his most common position it/has been??? To promote maximum vaccination, or some other goal?

Viewing his positions post facto, do you now think that he has used every opportunity to push vaccination, even if it involved a bit of exaggeration and FUD?

Has it been confirmed by several reputable sources that those deaths occurred? If they did, what was the profile of the dead. How old, how fragile, what were the co-morbidities if any? Do any people in that general profile, (e.g. old, sick etc.), die of pneumonia, bad colds or the flu???

Jesus Christ. You’re a nut. People will die from omincron and have died from omicron.

 

[Stumpfan]

You could move to India and some other countries where it doesn’t exist because they used Ivermectin to make it go away. You could be happy there because you don’t have to worry about the next one

Why HCQ and Ivermectin were removed from India’s Covid-19 treatment protocol

Ivermectin and HCQ were dropped from the clinical guidance after studies found that these drugs have little to no effect on Covid-related mortality or clinical recovery of the patient.

www.indiatoday.in