So is 'bitch' the new N word?

mackenzie

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Of course there are restrictions but offensive speech has never been limited, nor should it ever be.
Okay, that's a little more nuanced. But the flip side is that freedom of speech is not the same as freedom from consequences. He is free to say what he wants and he's not broken any laws and she can't sue him for his choice of words and he's walking around a free man. However, if he loses his job (voted out of office), is censured by the House or gets a ton of criticism for abusive language, those are the consequences that he has to live with. He's free to say it and others are free to criticize him. I'm not sure where anyone's right to speech has been threatened here.
 

Korn6

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Okay, that's a little more nuanced. But the flip side is that freedom of speech is not the same as freedom from consequences. He is free to say what he wants and he's not broken any laws and she can't sue him for his choice of words and he's walking around a free man. However, if he loses his job (voted out of office), is censured by the House or gets a ton of criticism for abusive language, those are the consequences that he has to live with. He's free to say it and others are free to criticize him. I'm not sure where anyone's right to speech has been threatened here.
Only the government is restricted from stopping speech...individuals retain their rights. I can allow guns on my property and my neighbor may choose to restrict them. Private property rights are among our most sacred rights.
 
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mackenzie

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Thanks for your judgemental and close-minded contribution to this thread.

Your disdain for me without ever having met me or an in person discussion disgusts me about where the world is headed. Your life's timeline and point of view is not the only one in existence.

Good luck to you in your future endeavors.
You asked for an opinion and I gave it. I read your words and was surprised by them. I'm close-minded about the rightness of calling a woman a bitch (in any circumstances) - correct, guilty as charged. Do I have disdain for a man who thinks it is okay to call a woman a bitch - alright, you got me again.

Now, your judgement of me disgusting you and terrifying you about where the world is headed feels like it merits the same kind of close-minded, never having met me condemnation you accused me of. I don't view my opinion on this topic as any new wokeness on my part because it's actually a very old fashioned view I hold on this topic. I'm 47, all my life I've been taught there was a proper way to treat women. I got teased in middle school for holding doors for girls, I've never in my life called a woman a bitch and have always thought it was sexist and demeaning and abusive. I have three daughters and I hope I've raised them to expect the same from the men in their lives. The men I've looked up to all my life honor and respect women, act like gentlemen, hold doors, pull out chairs, don't raise voices to women and by god never raise a hand to a woman. If you call a woman a bitch, I don't respect you any more than I do a person who uses the n-word.
 
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mackenzie

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Only the government is restricted from stopping speech...individuals retain their rights. I can allow guns on my property and my neighbor may choose to restrict them. Private property rights are among our most sacred rights.
Okay, but again, in this situation, has the government stepped in and stopped anyone's speech? Sorry, I'm not sure what point you're making here.
 

valdosta eagle

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You asked for an opinion and I gave it. I read your words and was surprised by them. I'm close-minded about the rightness of calling a woman a bitch (in any circumstances) - correct, guilty as charged. Do I have disdain for a man who thinks it is okay to call a woman a bitch - alright, you got me again.

Now, your judgement of me disgusting you and terrifying you about where the world is headed feels like it merits the same kind of close-minded, never having met me condemnation you accused me of. I don't view my opinion on this topic as any new wokeness on my part because it's actually a very old fashioned view I hold on this topic. I'm 47, all my life I've been taught there was a proper way to treat women. I got teased in middle school for holding doors for girls, I've never in my life called a woman a bitch and have always thought it was sexist and demeaning and abusive. I have three daughters and I hope I've raised them to expect the same from the men in their lives. The men I've looked up to all my life honor and respect women, act like gentlemen, hold doors, pull out chairs, don't raise voices to women and by god never raise a hand to a woman. If you call a woman a bitch, I don't respect you any more than I do a person who uses the n-word.
Ha. I’m not sure you realize it but somehow you’re a chauvinist.
 
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mackenzie

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Ha. I’m not sure you realize it but somehow you’re a chauvinist.
lol I realize these are actually old fashioned values and some women wouldn't like it. The funny thing is, I am married to an unabashed feminist, the strongest woman I know, and she appreciates it all. I'm at least still in a generation or maybe a location where those behaviors have almost always been appreciated. I think you can be equal and respectful and still be considerate.
 

valdosta eagle

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lol I realize these are actually old fashioned values and some women wouldn't like it. The funny thing is, I am married to an unabashed feminist, the strongest woman I know, and she appreciates it all. I'm at least still in a generation or maybe a location where those behaviors have almost always been appreciated. I think you can be equal and respectful and still be considerate.
I’m not sure you understand that your wife is really not a feminist. If she was she wouldn’t accept any of those things you mentioned earlier.
 

mackenzie

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I’m not sure you understand that your wife is really not a feminist. If she was she wouldn’t accept any of those things you mentioned earlier.
See, I think you're wrong and she would definitely tell you you're wrong. Feminism isn't some militant, man hating thing that so many have tried to turn it into. It's about equality of the sexes, that's it. This TED talk is one of the best things I've seen to explain it in terms I 100% agree with and I've shared this will all of my girls.

 

mackenzie

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This is exactly where the word bitch needs use.
I thought, maybe I'm missing something. So, I asked my 19 year old daughter tonight if any man has ever called her a bitch. She said "No, none of the guys I hang out with would do that." So I asked if she would consider it abusive if someone called her a "f-ing bitch." She looked at me like I was in idiot and said absolutely. So, finally I asked her if the word bitch was the new n-word and her exact response was "it's never been okay to call a woman that."
 

D-ZER13

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You asked for an opinion and I gave it. I read your words and was surprised by them. I'm close-minded about the rightness of calling a woman a bitch (in any circumstances) - correct, guilty as charged. Do I have disdain for a man who thinks it is okay to call a woman a bitch - alright, you got me again.

Now, your judgement of me disgusting you and terrifying you about where the world is headed feels like it merits the same kind of close-minded, never having met me condemnation you accused me of. I don't view my opinion on this topic as any new wokeness on my part because it's actually a very old fashioned view I hold on this topic. I'm 47, all my life I've been taught there was a proper way to treat women. I got teased in middle school for holding doors for girls, I've never in my life called a woman a bitch and have always thought it was sexist and demeaning and abusive. I have three daughters and I hope I've raised them to expect the same from the men in their lives. The men I've looked up to all my life honor and respect women, act like gentlemen, hold doors, pull out chairs, don't raise voices to women and by god never raise a hand to a woman. If you call a woman a bitch, I don't respect you any more than I do a person who uses the n-word.
In all seriousness, if you have lived in that perfect bubble you describe I can't possibly condemn you for anything.

Not all of us live in that bubble. I'm the same age you are and was taught the same things, but the world changes and people aren't always what they say they do.

My wife of 16 years told me before we were married that she loved me more than anything in the world (as I did her), but there may be times when I needed to break up an argument. It was her suggestion that my puchline be 'why are you being a bitch.' Lol. It was a loving kind of safe word for arguments for lack of a better explanation.

I still to this day hold doors, pull out chairs and the lot. But, women these days don't see that in the same light as they used to. I wish I never knew that, but my wife is dead.

If you think for a second I mistreated my wife in any way you are a fool.

I hope you can teach your young ladies everything you know to be right and that everything goes well for all of you, but don't even try to judge me because that makes you my bitch.

WE
 

valdosta eagle

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See, I think you're wrong and she would definitely tell you you're wrong. Feminism isn't some militant, man hating thing that so many have tried to turn it into. It's about equality of the sexes, that's it. This TED talk is one of the best things I've seen to explain it in terms I 100% agree with and I've shared this will all of my girls.

I’ll be honest, I’m not watching that it’s 30min long. It really doesn’t matter what it says basically you and your wife are like my family, including 3 girls, but your wife isn’t a feminist. If she was she would be pissed if you treated her differently than you’d treat a man. I’m very much a “chauvinist “ in that I expect different things from my son than my daughters. I do use the word bitch when it’s appropriate, in my eyes, but my wife usually agrees with me. Let me also say I would never call a woman a bitch to her face.
 

mackenzie

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In all seriousness, if you have lived in that perfect bubble you describe I can't possibly condemn you for anything.

Not all of us live in that bubble. I'm the same age you are and was taught the same things, but the world changes and people aren't always what they say they do.

My wife of 16 years told me before we were married that she loved me more than anything in the world (as I did her), but there may be times when I needed to break up an argument. It was her suggestion that my puchline be 'why are you being a bitch.' Lol. It was a loving kind of safe word for arguments for lack of a better explanation.

I still to this day hold doors, pull out chairs and the lot. But, women these days don't see that in the same light as they used to. I wish I never knew that, but my wife is dead.

If you think for a second I mistreated my wife in any way you are a fool.

I hope you can teach your young ladies everything you know to be right and that everything goes well for all of you, but don't even try to judge me because that makes you my bitch.

WE
Thanks, d-zer for replying. I really do appreciate it. I love the story about your wife and that's entirely different than what I think we're talking about here and definitely different than what was said to AOC. I'm so sorry you lost her and I consider myself lucky that my wife and girls appreciate the things I do for them. If I judged you wrongly, I'm sorry for that. You don't sound to me like the kind of man who would get into a woman's face and call her a f-ing bitch. If you do or you have, I would lose respect for you but what you're describing with your wife is clearly not anything like that.

You're not big enough to make me your bitch, though. ;-)

WDE
 
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mackenzie

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I’ll be honest, I’m not watching that it’s 30min long. It really doesn’t matter what it says basically you and your wife are like my family, including 3 girls, but your wife isn’t a feminist. If she was she would be pissed if you treated her differently than you’d treat a man. I’m very much a “chauvinist “ in that I expect different things from my son than my daughters. I do use the word bitch when it’s appropriate, in my eyes, but my wife usually agrees with me. Let me also say I would never call a woman a bitch to her face.
Yeah, it's long. But she's a feminist and would agree with my use of the word to define my wife. Not everyone would. Not sure how old your girls are, but her story is great and is worth sharing if they're of an age to hear it.
 
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valdosta eagle

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Yeah, it's long. But she's a feminist and would agree with my use of the word to define my wife. Not everyone would. Not sure how old your girls are, but her story is great and is worth sharing if they're of an age to hear it.
Maybe I have the wrong person, but your wife’s a body builder or something isn’t she?
 

D-ZER13

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Thanks, d-zer for replying. I really do appreciate it. I love the story about your wife and that's entirely different than what I think we're talking about here and definitely different than what was said to AOC. I'm so sorry you lost her and I consider myself lucky that my wife and girls appreciate the things I do for them. If I judged you wrongly, I'm sorry for that. You don't sound to me like the kind of man who would get into a woman's face and call her a f-ing bitch. If you do or you have, I would lose respect for you but what you're describing with your wife is clearly not anything like that.

You're not big enough to make me your bitch, though. ;-)

WDE
Thanks.

I got arrested once for kicking the crap out of a bouncer at a bar for physically throwing out a young lady who had shunned his advances. I'm not a small man, but I'd probably be on your side mac.

No worries.
 
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mackenzie

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I remember you posting some pics like 10 years ago. Seems like she was very active in competition. Man that was a long time ago.
She still is off and on. She got her pro card in a natural org in 2018 and did her first pro show last year. This year she was going to do worlds but of course, covid hit.

She still does training and nutrition programs online for clients all over the place and has done really well with it.

www.maximumfitnessconsulting.com
 
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valdosta eagle

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She still is off and on. She got her pro card in a natural org in 2018 and did her first pro show last year. This year she was going to do worlds but of course, covid hit.

She still does training and nutrition programs online for clients all over the place and has done really well with it.

www.maximumfitnessconsulting.com
That sucks. Good luck to her.
 
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