Huntsville PD says they tear gassed a peaceful crowd as a "precaution"...

Jackson68

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2006
33,593
13,233
113
Wait, you don't agree with hostile armed protesters being gassed? That's what you said above.

The protesters in Michigan meet both of your criteria for gassing and firing rubber bullets as they were armed and hostile. Would you have supported gassing the crowd depicted above in their state capital to ensure they did not become violent?
Again...where did I say that?
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
Apparently one was hit by something thrown and received minor injuries. According to the police department.
Let's assume that's accurate even though the HPD statement doesn't mention it and instead says they gassed the crowd "roll the dice" to see if it became violent. Does a water bottle being thrown justify pepper spraying the girls walking around in the first video? Does a water bottle being thrown justify tear gassing a crowd that is otherwise not being violent that includes children? Surely you don't think police in riot gear can't deal with 1 or 2 people who are bad actors without gassing a large crowd that is not being violent.
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
Again...where did I say that?
You said above the police justification was that the crowd was becoming "a little hostile" (HPD's description) and someone said they thought they may have seen a gun. If you don't think that justifies gassing and firing rubber bullets, then what are you saying?

Do you disagree with what happened in Huntsville to the peaceful protesters?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mkp_81

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
Not reading your wall post but according to al.com law enforcement was indeed assaulted and injured.
Was the kid who had part of his calf blown off by a rubber bullet assaulted?
 

Jackson68

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2006
33,593
13,233
113
Let's assume that's accurate even though the HPD statement doesn't mention it and instead says they gassed the crowd "roll the dice" to see if it became violent. Does a water bottle being thrown justify pepper spraying the girls walking around in the first video? Does a water bottle being thrown justify tear gassing a crowd that is otherwise not being violent that includes children? Surely you don't think police in riot gear can't deal with 1 or 2 people who are bad actors without gassing a large crowd that is not being violent.
They did mention it. That’s how I know it.
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
He made up a whole post i didn't make yesterday. He claimed I said I had sources saying antifa was going to raid Jasper or something of the sort. I was like wtf? His statement was 100% fabricated.
Nope. You were in a thread where the "antifa list" that included the plan to burn down Jasper was being discussed. I asked the question in jest since we were discussing it the day before. Sorry if that didn't come across.
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
They did mention it. That’s how I know it.
Their spokesperson did not mention it in the statement they issued. If officer(s) had been assaulted and wounded, I would think that would have been their number one justification for using tear gas as opposed to "the crowd was a little hostile" and they "weren't going to roll the dice to see if the protest was violent." If it was already violent, why didn't he just say that?

Post the videos of all the officers being assaulted and I'll be happy to reevaluate my position. As I said, I have no issue with the police defending themselves or dispersing violent crowds. It sounds like the whole thing was live streamed so I am sure HPD will be releasing all of the violence caught on tape.
 

Hornacious

MINISTER OF BRACKETS
Gold Member
Nov 28, 2010
35,614
48,375
113
Nope. You were in a thread where the "antifa list" that included the plan to burn down Jasper was being discussed. I asked the question in jest since we were discussing it the day before. Sorry if that didn't come across.
That is not how that went at all. I made a post about pharmacies and gun stores being targets.
 

Jackson68

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2006
33,593
13,233
113
He made up a whole post i didn't make yesterday. He claimed I said I had sources saying antifa was going to raid Jasper or something of the sort. I was like wtf? His statement was 100% fabricated.
He does it all the time. He’s disingenuous as hell. He will ignore me asking him to show me saying that.

It sounds like some hostilities happened, a window was broken, a police officer was hit by something thrown at him and police saw and heard things that concerned them and they took action.
 

easterwood

All-American
Gold Member
Their spokesperson did not mention it in the statement they issued. If officer(s) had been assaulted and wounded, I would think that would have been their number one justification for using tear gas as opposed to "the crowd was a little hostile" and they "weren't going to roll the dice to see if the protest was violent." If it was already violent, why didn't he just say that?
Let's all come to a consensus on this quotation, "It started to get a little hostile. A couple of things were thrown at us,” Johnson said. “The verbiage, some of the threats, the hostility, blocking the road — we just cannot have that.”
 

alphatiger08

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jun 17, 2009
18,206
45,924
113
Dunwoody, GA
I don’t care if they use tear gas or essentially any non lethal action to clear streets after curfew... there is plenty of time to peacefully protest during the times not restricted from curfew... across the board, but particularly in smaller cities, there is a finite capacity of the police department’s capabilities to keep order (already pushing overtime policies, I’d assume). This is especially so in smaller communities.

do we really want all these officers who apparently are super racist to be lacking sufficient sleep?
 
Last edited:

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
That is not how that went at all. I made a post about pharmacies and gun stores being targets.
Right. And as a joke, I asked if it was on the same ANTIFA list that had Jasper as a target. Sorry, I should have made it more clear I was making a joke based on the previous day's discussion we had.
 

Jackson68

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2006
33,593
13,233
113
Their spokesperson did not mention it in the statement they issued. If officer(s) had been assaulted and wounded, I would think that would have been their number one justification for using tear gas as opposed to "the crowd was a little hostile" and they "weren't going to roll the dice to see if the protest was violent." If it was already violent, why didn't he just say that?

Post the videos of all the officers being assaulted and I'll be happy to reevaluate my position. As I said, I have no issue with the police defending themselves or dispersing violent crowds.
I linked the article above. They are quoting the police officer. Please try to keep up. I don’t have a video. It does say the police have video. I’m just relying on the reports and quotes from the police. I just happened to read and comprehend it all.
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
Let's all come to a consensus on this quotation, "It started to get a little hostile. A couple of things were thrown at us,” Johnson said. “The verbiage, some of the threats, the hostility, blocking the road — we just cannot have that.”
I agree. We should definitely use their exact quote as I have repeatedly...

HPD spokesman said they: "weren't going to roll the dice to see if the protest turned out to be violent." He made it very clear the protest was not already violent with that quote.
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
I linked the article above. They are quoting the police officer. Please try to keep up. I don’t have a video. It does say the police have video. I’m just relying on the reports and quotes from the police. I just happened to read and comprehend it all.
I am quoting the official statement from the department spokesman on why they tear gassed the crowd. You are waffling around a ton here. You said you didn't mean that hostile protesters who are armed should be tear gassed or shot with rubber bullets. Since that's not what you meant, what is your position on what occurred?
 

easterwood

All-American
Gold Member
I agree. We should definitely use their exact quote as I have repeatedly...

HPD spokesman said they: "weren't going to roll the dice to see if the protest turned out to be violent." He made it very clear the protest was not already violent with that quote.
So he is contradicting and therefore unreliable, got it. I'd like to submit multiple accounts things were heating up to include objects being thrown at police. Furthermore, Paul Blart sprayed my peaceful friend with pepper spray.
 

Jackson68

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2006
33,593
13,233
113
I am quoting the official statement from the department spokesman on why they tear gassed the crowd. You are waffling around a ton here. You said you didn't mean that hostile protesters who are armed should be tear gassed or shot with rubber bullets. Since that's not what you meant, what is your position on what occurred?
:eek:
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
I don’t care if they use tear gas or essentially any non lethal action to clear streets after curfew... there is plenty of time to peacefully protest during the times not restricted from curfew... across the board, but particularly in smaller cities, there is a finite capacity of the police department’s capabilities to keep order. This is especially so in smaller communities.

do we really want all these officers who apparently are super racist to be lacking sufficient sleep?
Madison County doesn't have a curfew in place as far as I can tell. I checked the county website and it says nothing about it, only the one from COVID which expired. HPD only said the protesters had stayed being their permit time.

It is very problematic to claim anything up to lethal force is justified against peaceful protesters who are engaged in civil disobedience. All of the folks below were protesting peacefully in another time when riots were unfortunately also an issue in our country. The use of tear gas and other "non lethal force" against those protesters has not aged well.





 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
So he is contradicting and therefore unreliable, got it. I'd like to submit multiple accounts things were heating up to include objects being thrown at police. Furthermore, Paul Blart sprayed my peaceful friend with pepper spray.
The official spokesperson is unreliable? That seems odd.

As I said, if anyone threw something or otherwise assaulted a police officer, I am all of them being arrested. Those people are doing more to hurt the protest movement than any police department.

Do you think police in riot gear are capable of dealing with a small number of people who were "a little hostile", as the HPD spox described it, without gassing an entire crowd and spraying pepper spray in the faces of girls who are sitting around on park benches?
 

Jackson68

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2006
33,593
13,233
113
The official spokesperson is unreliable? That seems odd.

As I said, if anyone threw something or otherwise assaulted a police officer, I am all of them being arrested. Those people are doing more to hurt the protest movement than any police department.

Do you think police in riot gear are capable of dealing with a small number of people who were "a little hostile", as the HPD spox described it, without gassing an entire crowd and spraying pepper spray in the faces of girls who are sitting around on park benches?
You need to read things and become informed before commenting as if you know what you’re talking about.

The article I linked discusses this as well. The permit for the gathering at the courthouse ended at 6:30 pm. They have them plenty of time after that to go home.

Leaving this with you now. Take some time to bone up on the subject.
 

easterwood

All-American
Gold Member
The official spokesperson is unreliable? That seems odd.

As I said, if anyone threw something or otherwise assaulted a police officer, I am all of them being arrested. Those people are doing more to hurt the protest movement than any police department.

Do you think police in riot gear are capable of dealing with a small number of people who were "a little hostile", as the HPD spox described it, without gassing an entire crowd and spraying pepper spray in the faces of girls who are sitting around on park benches?
Hard to imagine that a spokesperson might be unreliable, isn’t it? From my sources things were degrading to include acts against the police. I’m not an expert in riot control, but the demonstration shifted and drew the response.

Pepper spray man needs to be punished for randomly spraying not large groups of people to include my friend at the end of some of the videos.

As for the tear gassing, it’s never appropriate for peaceful protesting. I submit that Huntsville’s, tonight crossed into not peaceful with the actions of a few.

and there was no curfew btw
 
  • Like
Reactions: DM8

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
You need to read things and become informed before commenting as if you know what you’re talking about.

The article I linked discusses this as well. The permit for the gathering at the courthouse ended at 6:30 pm. They have them plenty of time after that to go home.

Leaving this with you now. Take some time to bone up on the subject.
I am very well versed on the history of non violent protests in our country. I am disappointed that you support using gas or rubber bullets against anyone who protests without a permit. The folks below didn't have a permit either. Bull Connor would have appreciated your support.

 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
Hard to imagine that a spokesperson might be unreliable, isn’t it? From my sources things were degrading to include acts against the police. I’m not an expert in riot control, but the demonstration shifted and drew the response.

Pepper spray man needs to be punished for randomly spraying not large groups of people to include my friend at the end of some of the videos.

As for the tear gassing, it’s never appropriate for peaceful protesting. I submit that Huntsville’s, tonight crossed into not peaceful with the actions of a few.

and there was no curfew btw
Thanks for confirming there was no curfew. County website doesn't mention one so I assume that was the case.

The whole protest was videoed so I assume there will be plenty of footage of the violent protesters which would have justified gassing the whole crowd. As I said, if the crowd was violent, I have zero issue with the police using whatever means needed to disperse them. If a couple of people threw water bottles, that's a very different story. Police in riot gear with shields are more than capable of dealing with that without gassing a crowd that included kids.
 

easterwood

All-American
Gold Member
Thanks for confirming there was no curfew. County website doesn't mention one so I assume that was the case.

The whole protest was videoed so I assume there will be plenty of footage of the violent protesters which would have justified gassing the whole crowd. As I said, if the crowd was violent, I have zero issue with the police using whatever means needed to disperse them. If a couple of people threw water bottles, that's a very different story. Police in riot gear with shields are more than capable of dealing with that without gassing a crowd that included kids.
I would like to see any video you may find. I believe we are in agreement.

A minor detail I overlooked in my texts, things got ugly when ALEA showed up with the 30 to 50 cars.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DM8

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
I would like to see any video you may find. I believe we are in agreement.

A minor detail I overlooked in my texts, things got ugly when ALEA showed up.
That makes sense. It appears to be a common thread that protests get more hostile when the police show additional force. It's a fine line for them I am sure as they want to make sure they can maintain order, but maybe it would make more sense to hold the reinforcements back when a crowd isn't being violent.

I wish the LEOs below had been there tonight. I'd bet money they would have talked with the protesters and succeeded in keeping things calm or even opened a positive dialogue. Gassing large crowds and pepper spraying girls sitting on park benches is not going to bring this crisis to an end. Heroes like these guy could if we have enough of them...
 

alphatiger08

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jun 17, 2009
18,206
45,924
113
Dunwoody, GA
Madison County doesn't have a curfew in place as far as I can tell. I checked the county website and it says nothing about it, only the one from COVID which expired. HPD only said the protesters had stayed being their permit time.

It is very problematic to claim anything up to lethal force is justified against peaceful protesters who are engaged in civil disobedience. All of the folks below were protesting peacefully in another time when riots were unfortunately also an issue in our country. The use of tear gas and other "non lethal force" against those protesters has not aged well.





I haven’t seen a defined curfew (they may or may not have one, if not, I stand corrected on that “technicality” if they are not), I assumed like most major cities they had as well (despite not being a major city). But same applies for protest permits in my opinion. Sounds like they gave plenty of notice to disperse after permit expired. I still have little sympathy for people that ignore the warnings to clear the streets if it was an impromptu curfew. Again, there is plenty of time to protest during daylight and I don’t have a problem with them making decisions they feel best keeps their neighborhoods safe. You can’t expect the police to be fully staffed to defend potential riots 24 hours for an extended period, especially in a smaller city. You’re just begging for a situations where a sleep deprived officer cannot make rational decisions.
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
This is the kind of unfortunate reaction that will happen when nonviolent protesters are gassed or shot with rubber bullets. As I said earlier, even those who don't support the protesters should be able to realize that gas and rubber bullets against wholly or largely peaceful groups will only spark more protests and unfortunately motivate some people to give up on being peaceful.
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
I haven’t seen a defined curfew (they may or may not have one, if not, I stand corrected on that “technicality” if they are not), I assumed like most major cities they had as well (despite not being a major city). But same applies for protest permits in my opinion. Sounds like they gave plenty of notice to disperse after permit expired. I still have little sympathy for people that ignore the warnings to clear the streets if it was an impromptu curfew. Again, there is plenty of time to protest during daylight and I don’t have a problem with them making decisions they feel best keeps their neighborhoods safe. You can’t expect the police to be fully staffed to defend potential riots 24 hours for an extended period, especially in a smaller city. You’re just begging for a situations where a sleep deprived officer cannot make rational decisions.
You are quoting directly from the arguments made to shut down the civil rights protests that didn't have permits. People in the 1960s said Bull Connor was just trying to "restore order" when he unleashed the dogs and used fire hoses on people marching through Birmingham without permits. The use of non-lethal force against those protesters did not age well. Using gas and rubber bullets against non violent protesters today will lead to nothing other than more protests and increase the likelihood of riots. I find it hard to believe anyone can't see the logic behind never using force on peaceful protesters. If there had been a curfew and they refused to leave, zip tie everyone and take them to jail to be processed and released. That happens all the time when peaceful protesters engage in civil disobedience.
 

alphatiger08

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jun 17, 2009
18,206
45,924
113
Dunwoody, GA
You are quoting directly from the arguments made to shut down the civil rights protests that didn't have permits. People in the 1960s said Bull Connor was just trying to "restore order" when he unleashed the dogs and used fire hoses on people marching through Birmingham without permits. The use of non-lethal force against those protesters did not age well. Using gas and rubber bullets against non violent protesters today will lead to nothing other than more protests and increase the likelihood of riots. I find it hard to believe anyone can't see the logic behind never using force on peaceful protesters. If there had been a curfew and they refused to leave, zip tie everyone and take them to jail to be processed and released. That happens all the time when peaceful protesters engage in civil disobedience.
It rich that protests for re-opening two weeks ago were met with such haste, even though there were no riots or businesses burned, yet today were debating as to how much violence has to occur to shut down a protest. In this case, let them march the streets all night long.

I’m all for peaceful protest, even if I don’t agree with the narrow minded cause of making it a racial issue vs it being a olive brutality issue. It been very obvious that the later into the evening these protests go, the worse the looting has been prevalent. I have no problem with a curfew being implemented or enacted upon, even if it’s a decision made on the spot to try and de-escalate before things get out of hand.
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
I would like to see any video you may find. I believe we are in agreement.

A minor detail I overlooked in my texts, things got ugly when ALEA showed up with the 30 to 50 cars.
The video linked below puts any rumor about the crowd being violent to rest. This link has 7 minutes of footage of the entire crowd before the police opened up with tear gas and rubber bullets. The only objects thrown on the video by protesters are when they picked up tear gas canisters to throw them back towards police. Maybe that's what hit the officer who was reportedly injured.

The protesters were chanting "hands up, don't shoot" when the police opened fire. The police encircled the protesters and journalist and forced them to stay in the tear gas rather than allowing them to disperse. Clearly their goal wasn't just to get them to leave. This was violent attack on peaceful protesters. The Huntsville Chief of Police should be fired along with whoever was commanding on the scene for HPD and ALEA. Violence against peaceful protesters should not be tolerated.

https://www.waaytv.com/content/news...or-end-to-George-Floyd-protest-571001271.html
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
It rich that protests for re-opening two weeks ago were met with such haste, even though there were no riots or businesses burned, yet today were debating as to how much violence has to occur to shut down a protest. In this case, let them march the streets all night long.

I’m all for peaceful protest, even if I don’t agree with the narrow minded cause of making it a racial issue vs it being a olive brutality issue. It been very obvious that the later into the evening these protests go, the worse the looting has been prevalent. I have no problem with a curfew being implemented or enacted upon, even if it’s a decision made on the spot to try and de-escalate before things get out of hand.
There was not curfew and the police don't have the power to enact one on the spot. They fired on peaceful protesters on the grounds they didn't have a permit. There was nothing illegal about being at the county courthouse where these people were at the time they fell under this attack by HPD and ALEA.

Which shutdown protests were fired on with rubber bullets or tear gas? They were allowed to protest wherever they wanted as far as I can tell, even inside the state capital in Michigan where they had no permit. You said above you supported gassing and shooting the protesters with rubber bullets in Huntsville because they did not have a permit. What would your reaction have been if Michigan's governor had ordered all the armed nuts screaming at police in their capital to be gassed and shot? I am going to go out on a limb and say you would have been very upset about it.


 
Last edited:

alphatiger08

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Jun 17, 2009
18,206
45,924
113
Dunwoody, GA
There was not curfew and the police don't have the power to enact one on the spot. They fired on peaceful protesters on the grounds they didn't have a permit. There was nothing illegal about being at the County Courthouse where these people were at the time they fell under this attack.

Which shutdown protests were fired on with rubber bullets or tear gas? They were allowed to protest wherever they wanted as far as I can tell, even inside the state capital in Michigan where they had no permit. You said above you supported gassing and shooting the protesters with rubber bullets in Huntsville because they did not have a permit. What would your reaction have been if Michigan's governor had ordered all the armed nuts screaming at police in their capital to be gassed and shot? I am going to go out on a limb and say you would have been very upset about it.


I don’t recall any of their protests turning to riots and looting. I don’t recall any of their protests ending with churches burning and people destroying businesses, including minority owned businesses for their cause. I also don’t recall any protestors murdering any innocent people like the former African American police captain killed in St. Louis so they could loot that particular store. It’s a shame his life doesn’t matter as much as George Floyd’s in the eyes of many...
 

DM8

Bunker Legend
Gold Member
Sep 24, 2007
70,596
47,159
113
I don’t recall any of their protests turning to riots and looting. I don’t recall any of their protests ending with churches burning and people destroying businesses, including minority owned businesses for their cause. I also don’t recall any protestors murdering any innocent people like the former African American police captain killed in St. Louis so they could loot that particular store. It’s a shame his life doesn’t matter as much as George Floyd’s in the eyes of many...
The life of that officer in St. Louis certainly matters to me. I don't want to see this strife escalate further which is why I am so opposed to the deplorable actions of Huntsville PD and ALEA tonight.

No one was rioting in Huntsville. The argument you are making is exactly what people said in the 1960s who saw no problem with tear gas, fire hoses and dogs being use to maintain law and order when civil rights protesters took the streets without permits. There were vastly worse riots in the 60s than what we have seen thus far which is what scum like Bull Connor used as justification for brutalizing civil rights protesters. Hopefully that will remain the case, but following HPD/ALEA's plan to tear gas and fire rubber bullets at peaceful demonstrators will guarantee thousands more people join the protests and more riots break out. It’s amazing that anyone could fail to see that.
 
Last edited:

Henrytd20

All-American
Gold Member
Dec 27, 2007
4,911
9,996
113
40
Tennessee
HPD statement below says the protest was peaceful, but the crowd became "a little hostile" and they used gas as a precaution as they didn't want to "roll the dice on the protesters becoming violent." Birmingham's Bull Connor would have loved that justification for deploying tear gas, fire hoses or dogs.

This is exactly the kind of action that will continue to cause the protests to grow. Using chemical agents on people who are peacefully protesting police violence is the worst thing any department could be doing right now. The people this guy was spraying weren't even protesting, they were just milling around with some of them sitting on a bench talking and not paying attention as he walks up to spray them. This officer should be fired.

Then to make matters worse, they tear gassed a peaceful crowd that included children and then the officers in gas masks prevented the crowd and media from fleeing the gas. This was not a riot. It was a peaceful assembly of people exercising their 1st amendment rights. Huntsville needs to fire their police chief.




 

rkspeck33

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 14, 2016
1,534
1,816
113
You need to read things and become informed before commenting as if you know what you’re talking about.
I generally like DM8 post and especially basketball. However, he is taking it to Rice level insanity with “absolutes” just because a video does or does not show something. Nothing is absolute in situation and the story usually lies in between. You can still not agree with using of the gas which is 100% fine.

I would assume all of this happened. Tear/riot gas was used on peaceful protestors. Items where thrown at cops. Crowds where asked to get out of the road. A few protestors probably took some things too far and ruined for the other 99%. Again, not condoning using the gas, simply saying anyone talking in absolutes because of video is ridiculous especially when some of the people where there or had friends that where there.
 

Random Sidewalk Fan

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 8, 2018
1,358
2,964
113
Typical @DuMb8 post. Incomplete facts, gets called out, fills up 2 pages worth of whataboutisms and unrelated historical events.

He should probably go and join his fellow rioters because it's obvious he too dumb to hold down a day job.