Wesley Steiner...

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
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Something about systemic oppression... I mean personal responsibility and hard work. Weird how the kid faced uphill battles and is continuing to power through them when he could just blame everybody else. I have a feeling Wesley will succeed in life
All folks who face an uneven playing field SHOULD take personal responsibility and be willing to work two or three times as hard as others to attain success, however, only a blazing idiot would NOT also advocate that we establish a level playing field first and foremost.

When folks are lazy and want to keep advantages that were ill-gotten, they will frequently dump all responsibility at the feet of "personal responsibility". While it is indeed an AWESOME trait/tool, it can also be a cop-out. If you see your neighbor laying in the ditch, beat up, hurt and needing help, you should reach back and lend a helping hand, instead of coping out and moving over to the other side of the road and going by. However, some just aren't willing to share and put in the hard work required to help a Samaritan.

Kudo's to Wesley for overcoming his hurdles. It would be great if that were a solution for the bulk of the bell curve facing extraordinary challenges.
 

BigBallinKemosabi

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Jun 1, 2014
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All folks who face an uneven playing field SHOULD take personal responsibility and be willing to work two or three times as hard as others to attain success, however, only a blazing idiot would NOT also advocate that we establish a level playing field first and foremost.

When folks are lazy and want to keep advantages that were ill-gotten, they will frequently dump all responsibility at the feet of "personal responsibility". While it is indeed an AWESOME trait/tool, it can also be a cop-out. If you see your neighbor laying in the ditch, beat up, hurt and needing help, you should reach back and lend a helping hand, instead of coping out and moving over to the other side of the road and going by. However, some just aren't willing to share and put in the hard work required to help a Samaritan.

Kudo's to Wesley for overcoming his hurdles. It would be great if that were a solution for the bulk of the bell curve facing extraordinary challenges.
Kind of odd you see it as something that COULD be a solution after stating it IS a solution for them. I agree with everything you said, the part that I can’t wrap my head around is the fight for a level playing field based on race alone. Some of these people need to visit rural parts of the south, poor is poor and a lot of folks are certainly not starting on a level playing field as you said. Fighting to start all on the level of the elite is a losing proposition but the discrepancy is out of control and should be addressed. Wesley didn’t want to wait and decided he’d take matters into his own hands, kudos to him and others who do the same
 

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
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May 29, 2001
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Kind of odd you see it as something that COULD be a solution after stating it IS a solution for them. I agree with everything you said, the part that I can’t wrap my head around is the fight for a level playing field based on race alone. Some of these people need to visit rural parts of the south, poor is poor and a lot of folks are certainly not starting on a level playing field as you said. Fighting to start all on the level of the elite is a losing proposition but the discrepancy is out of control and should be addressed. Wesley didn’t want to wait and decided he’d take matters into his own hands, kudos to him and others who do the same
I don't know what you mean by the bolded statement. In addition, we don't know what motivated Wesley, or what caused him to take the path that he did, it's just good that he was ONE OF THE FEW who found a path out and over the hurdles.

I've NEVER said that we should only fight for equality based on race alone, however, most people understand that when there's a whole pile of issues needing to be addressed, you prioritize, and address the biggest, most pressing and most pervasive issues first. That is why the racial issues are given priority. There as such a LONG and well documented history, and the ingrained inequities were so pervasive and so wrong. They were reflected in the very laws, policies, minds, hearts and attitudes of the land. Why can't folks understand that? We SHOULD work to help all. The poor, the disadvantaged from all races and all walks of life, but again, we should do it on a prioritized basis and start helping the worst and most disadvantaged etc., first.

Just leaning on personal responsibility alone ensures that the bulk of the bell curve impacted by the disadvantages, will NOT be able to break through. That's why we work on removing the unfair hurdles, so that everyone will have an equal chance to succeed.
 
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BigBallinKemosabi

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I don't know what you mean by the bolded statement. In addition, we don't know what motivated Wesley, or what caused him to take the path that he did, it's just good that he was ONE OF THE FEW who found a path out and over the hurdles.

I've NEVER said that we should only fight for equality based on race alone, however, most people understand that when there's a whole pile of issues needing to be addressed, you prioritize, and address the biggest, most pressing and most pervasive issues first. That is why the racial issues are given priority. There as such a LONG and well documented history, and the ingrained inequities were so pervasive and so wrong. They were reflected in the very laws, policies, minds, hearts and attitudes of the land. Why can't folks understand that? We SHOULD work to help all. The poor, the disadvantaged from all races and all walks of life, but again, we should do it on a prioritized basis and start helping the worst and most disadvantaged etc., first.

Just leaning on personal responsibility alone ensures that the bulk of the bell curve impacted by the disadvantages, will NOT be able to break through. That's why we work on removing the unfair hurdles, so that everyone will have an equal chance to succeed.
You mentioned it could be a solution, when in fact it IS one of the best solutions.


I disagree with your last paragraph. The reason the bulk of the bell curve don’t break through is because they simply refuse to take personal responsibility.

I also think other solutions are misleading.. you don’t need free college and healthcare if you show up on time, present yourself professionally, and go above and beyond what’s required. This allusion that college is necessary to work so it should be free is asinine. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs and tons of other trades are very solid careers..there should be an emphasis on trade schools. I’m not insinuating you’ve said or stand for any of this, I’m just providing my opinion on the topic in general. I appreciate your response.
 
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Howgie

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Jan 7, 2012
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Steiner is my favorite player on team, and there are some outstanding men on it. He will be one to remember for sure!!
 

hsvtiger34

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Jan 9, 2002
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As the oldest child of @CJ3131 , I know all too well about struggle. The first car he bought me at the age of 11 was a USED 1961 Mercedes 300 SL Gullwing. When I turned 16, he bought me a USED Piper 180 Super Cub plane. Even the first farm he bought me at 17 was only 160 acres and the farmhouse was less than 4000 sqft.. Still, I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and managed to get by with hard work, determination, and an 8-figure trust fund...
 

CJ3131

PAPA BARE
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Feb 5, 2003
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As the oldest child of @CJ3131 , I know all too well about struggle. The first car he bought me at the age of 11 was a USED 1961 Mercedes 300 SL Gullwing. When I turned 16, he bought me a USED Piper 180 Super Cub plane. Even the first farm he bought me at 17 was only 160 acres and the farmhouse was less than 4000 sqft.. Still, I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and managed to get by with hard work, determination, and an 8-figure trust fund...
Damnit!!!
Let me get off my other board re Nix and then I will deal with this matter!
A disgrace!
 

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
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May 29, 2001
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You mentioned it could be a solution, when in fact it IS one of the best solutions.


I disagree with your last paragraph. The reason the bulk of the bell curve don’t break through is because they simply refuse to take personal responsibility.

I also think other solutions are misleading.. you don’t need free college and healthcare if you show up on time, present yourself professionally, and go above and beyond what’s required. This allusion that college is necessary to work so it should be free is asinine. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs and tons of other trades are very solid careers..there should be an emphasis on trade schools. I’m not insinuating you’ve said or stand for any of this, I’m just providing my opinion on the topic in general. I appreciate your response.
Have you heard me saying ANYTHING about free college? Why are you muddying the water with that?

There is a normal distribution for everyone that take the "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps"/personal responsibility approach. A few will fail outright. A few will breakthrough and held up as the ultimate example, but the bulk of the bell curve will be hampered by the unfair practices.

If salmon are making a run, and I go to one river and put up a huge gill net, 30 feet high across the entire river, sure, a few will pop through holes and gaps, and folks like you will champion them and talk about how sheer will allowed them to get through...., but the reality is that the majority will indeed be held back if there is a net in place. Keep trying as hard as you can, for as long as you can to work through that net. That gives you the best chance to find a loop hole and pop through, but folks who really understand know that it is NOT a solution that ensures any salmon who is willing, to pop through. The bulk of the bell curve WILL be held back. That's why it's not a universal solution, (even though it should be a universal practice/principle).
 
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BigBallinKemosabi

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Have you heard me saying ANYTHING about free college? Why are you muddying the water with that?

There is a normal distribution for everyone that take the "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps"/personal responsibility approach. A few will fail outright. A few will breakthrough and held up as the ultimate example, but the bulk of the bell curve will be hampered by the unfair practices.

If salmon are making a run, and I go to one river and put up a huge gill net, 30 feet high across the entire river, sure, a few will pop through holes and gaps, and folks like you will champion them and talk about how sheer will allowed them to get through...., but the reality is that the majority will indeed be held back if there is a net in place. Keep trying as hard as you can, for as long as you can to work through that net. That gives you the best chance to find a loop hole and pop through, but folks who really understand know that it is NOT a solution that ensures any salmon who is willing, to pop through. The bulk of the bell curve WILL be held back. That's why it's not a universal solution, (even though it should be a universal practice/principle).
I can’t lie, I didn’t read past the first line. You seem pretty upset and clearly didn’t read where I explicitly stated I’m not attributing any of my comments to you... have a good evening
 

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
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I can’t lie, I didn’t read past the first line. You seem pretty upset and clearly didn’t read where I explicitly stated I’m not attributing any of my comments to you... have a good evening
If you are replying to threads and making assertions, without even having the integrity to read the thread, you lose all credibility and it speaks volumes. If you read the posts, there's a possibility that you may discover something that you didn't know and grow, or gain perspective that helps increase your understanding and knowledge of a particular topic/issue. If you're unwilling to put in that small amount of work, then again, you completely disqualify yourself from participating in the discussion.

In reality, you didn't respond to the "salmon run and net" analogy, because you know it's true and it shoots down your excuse making and cop-out theories regarding "personal responsibility".
 
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Bego_1982

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Yeeeaaaahhhh...I just thought I would post something positive about a kid that deserves a lot of respect...you jug heads took this and ran in a completely different direction than what I intended.
 

BigBallinKemosabi

All-American
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Jun 1, 2014
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If you are replying to threads and making assertions, without even having the integrity to read the thread, you lose all credibility and it speaks volumes. If you read the posts, there's a possibility that you may discover something that you didn't know and grow, or gain perspective that helps increase your understanding and knowledge of a particular topic/issue. If you're unwilling to put in that small amount of work, then again, you completely disqualify yourself from participating in the discussion.

In reality, you didn't respond to the "salmon run and net" analogy, because you know it's true and it shoots down your excuse making and cop-out theories regarding "personal responsibility".
Again, you’re not comprehending the post. I did not read past the first line of that specific rant you had. You’re being disingenuous saying I didn’t read the thread but I imagine your just blinded by the anger of someone disagreeing with you. I tried to be nice, ignorance is bliss
 

JLEAGLE07

First Round Draft Pick
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Aug 18, 2011
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Kind of odd you see it as something that COULD be a solution after stating it IS a solution for them. I agree with everything you said, the part that I can’t wrap my head around is the fight for a level playing field based on race alone. Some of these people need to visit rural parts of the south, poor is poor and a lot of folks are certainly not starting on a level playing field as you said. Fighting to start all on the level of the elite is a losing proposition but the discrepancy is out of control and should be addressed. Wesley didn’t want to wait and decided he’d take matters into his own hands, kudos to him and others who do the same
He doesn’t want to realize that all races face the same struggles today
 

tugmac

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Nov 5, 2001
12,584
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Carrollton, GA
All folks who face an uneven playing field SHOULD take personal responsibility and be willing to work two or three times as hard as others to attain success, however, only a blazing idiot would NOT also advocate that we establish a level playing field first and foremost.

When folks are lazy and want to keep advantages that were ill-gotten, they will frequently dump all responsibility at the feet of "personal responsibility". While it is indeed an AWESOME trait/tool, it can also be a cop-out. If you see your neighbor laying in the ditch, beat up, hurt and needing help, you should reach back and lend a helping hand, instead of coping out and moving over to the other side of the road and going by. However, some just aren't willing to share and put in the hard work required to help a Samaritan.

Kudo's to Wesley for overcoming his hurdles. It would be great if that were a solution for the bulk of the bell curve facing extraordinary challenges.
Curious as to how you propose that we restructure the concept of a two parent household and create a concept of accountability with the understanding that there are consequences for your actions?
 

alphatiger08

First Round Draft Pick
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Jun 17, 2009
18,740
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Dunwoody, GA
As the oldest child of @CJ3131 , I know all too well about struggle. The first car he bought me at the age of 11 was a USED 1961 Mercedes 300 SL Gullwing. When I turned 16, he bought me a USED Piper 180 Super Cub plane. Even the first farm he bought me at 17 was only 160 acres and the farmhouse was less than 4000 sqft.. Still, I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and managed to get by with hard work, determination, and an 8-figure trust fund...
@hsvtiger34 in hs...
 
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tigrdent

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Jan 10, 2002
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I don't know what you mean by the bolded statement. In addition, we don't know what motivated Wesley, or what caused him to take the path that he did, it's just good that he was ONE OF THE FEW who found a path out and over the hurdles.

I've NEVER said that we should only fight for equality based on race alone, however, most people understand that when there's a whole pile of issues needing to be addressed, you prioritize, and address the biggest, most pressing and most pervasive issues first. That is why the racial issues are given priority. There as such a LONG and well documented history, and the ingrained inequities were so pervasive and so wrong. They were reflected in the very laws, policies, minds, hearts and attitudes of the land. Why can't folks understand that? We SHOULD work to help all. The poor, the disadvantaged from all races and all walks of life, but again, we should do it on a prioritized basis and start helping the worst and most disadvantaged etc., first.

Just leaning on personal responsibility alone ensures that the bulk of the bell curve impacted by the disadvantages, will NOT be able to break through. That's why we work on removing the unfair hurdles, so that everyone will have an equal chance to succeed.
what Hurdles are you referring to?