Those complaining about increased crime due to the shutdowns

AUgncEngineer

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Not a crime.
The PPP had guidelines and rules, business that played by those rules and fit within those guidelines got cash that’s I’ll likely be forgiven.

Why would Yeezy brand be expected to leave free money on the table?

Again, not a crime.
Would you say it’s ethical? I never brought legality.
 

BeatBama60

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Shut up. I just meant we could look more like the Norwegian model that actually tries to rehabilitate them instead of putting them through hell. The return rate of prisoner's in the US is pretty bad.
That model would sure help to cut down on CO injuries and deaths, which would be unacceptable in any other line of work.

We make prisons tougher and tougher, and the guards take the brunt of the resulting rage. For 30k a year.
 
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T I G E R

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also, i would say any increase in white collar crime is due to deregulation, a lack of enforcement staff, and greed/stupidity.

i am interested to look through the businesses that got PPP loans. no doubt that giveaway was riddled with fraud. all government money is, tbh.
 

Double Dees

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Shut up. I just meant we could look more like the Norwegian model that actually tries to rehabilitate them instead of putting them through hell. The return rate of prisoner's in the US is pretty bad.
I bet if we stomped the out like cockroaches, we have a lot less return. But we are way to civilized and humane to do something so vile as punish bad people.
 

lewis3882

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Shut up. I just meant we could look more like the Norwegian model that actually tries to rehabilitate them instead of putting them through hell. The return rate of prisoner's in the US is pretty bad.
Murderers get 14 years (21 at the most) in Norway and then often move out of country. Does that seem fair? I can murder as many people as I want in Norway and by law I'm out when I'm 59. I also like the idea of rehabilitation, but their system doesn't correspond to the large city life we see in America. Put one Atlanta in Norway and then see how the system works.
 

AUgncEngineer

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Murderers get 14 years (21 at the most) in Norway and then often move out of country. Does that seem fair? I can murder as many people as I want in Norway and by law I'm out when I'm 59. I also like the idea of rehabilitation, but their system doesn't correspond to the large city life we see in America. Put one Atlanta in Norway and then see how the system works.
Can we agree that the best system is probably about halfway in-between China and Norway?
 
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lewis3882

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Can we agree that the best system is probably about halfway in-between China and Norway?
I don't know that there is a great system. I like the utopian ideas of Norway but don't think it is feasible everywhere. I like that China exacts swift justice on crimes, but shudder at the amount of innocent people convicted and executed without fair trial (or any). I think our system is broken. No idea how to fix it with the current issues. We bear the heavy burdens of our forefathers sins and it's now a crushing weight.
 
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Docdumpsta

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The guy in the link below. When they arrested him, they had to strip search him, and his entire penis was a dragon tattoo. Also, we went to a cabin in Tims Ford, Tennessee for a birthday when I was a kid. We built a bonfire at night, and saw two flashlights walking towards each other in the woods in the distance in the middle of the night. My friend's dad just said they were probably raccoon hunters. Turns out, the killer's girlfriend's trailer was a quarter mile away from where we stayed, and they would meet up late at night.

https://deathrow2019usa.blogspot.com/2019/07/charles-randall-stewart-alabama.html

EDIT:
DAWG, I gotta study’s dis WUN a litta! I thank I know dis case!
 
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AUgncEngineer

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I don't know that there is a great system. I like the utopian ideas of Norway but don't think it is feasible everywhere. I like that China exacts swift justice on crimes, but shudder at the amount of innocent people convicted and executed without fair trial (or any). I think our system is broken. No idea how to fix it with the current issues. We bear the heavy burdens of our forefathers sins and it's now a crushing weight.
Speaking of innocent people being convicted, here’s a story of someone being arrested after police used Woody Harrelson images in their artificial intelligence because the AI thought the original image was too dark.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...st-facial-recognition-results-research-finds/
 

texasAUtiger

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What's your thoughts on 25% of the prison population being there for non-violent marijuana offenses? America has a quarter the population of China, but has more people incarcerated. Are we doing something wrong?
We don't kill them or make them disappear at the rate China does.
 

Ricky's Rants

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What's your thoughts on 25% of the prison population being there for non-violent marijuana offenses? America has a quarter the population of China, but has more people incarcerated. Are we doing something wrong?
Strict laws and swift punishment in communist countries prevents a lot of crime, and I am pretty sure China does not have anyone on "death row" for an extended period of time...probably 24 hours or less.
 

tAUylorswift

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Do you have examples? I obviously had to take an advanced audit class to become a CPA, so I’ve read a lot of case studies. We all know about the Enrons (complex creative accounting), Healthsouths (stupid creative accounting), and Tycos of the world. I’ve also read a lot about Bernie Madoff and Barry minkow.

I haven’t heard of a surge in white collar crime, so I’d be interested to read about and discuss it.
have you looked at Tesla recently? Serious question.
 

tucker3434

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Walter Pavlo’s book is called Stolen Without a Gun, and that’s pretty much your answer. Violent crimes are just punished much more harshly, regardless of financial impact.

I’ve never personally seen it first hand. I’ve come in on mop up duty where it had occurred. I’ve also seen incompetence to the level where I might have suspected fraud had the books not been too simple to pull it off.

We’ll see what happens with white collar crime in 2020. I’d think a lot of the pressure that comes with having an awful year is offset by all of your competitors also having an awful year. It’s just kinda the expectation. I’d be wary of anyone (not named Amazon) that’s not seeing some disruption.
 

jenkird

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AgainstTheSpread

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On the up and up
Do you have examples? I obviously had to take an advanced audit class to become a CPA, so I’ve read a lot of case studies. We all know about the Enrons (complex creative accounting), Healthsouths (stupid creative accounting), and Tycos of the world. I’ve also read a lot about Bernie Madoff and Barry minkow.

I haven’t heard of a surge in white collar crime, so I’d be interested to read about and discuss it.
That Loeffler b*tch definitely did some shady trading, I don't care what the investigation said.
 

Big Blue

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But how about Kanye West getting $3-$5 million from the PPP as starters?
Is this actually illegal? I thought all the big companies getting PPP was just a result of government incompetence in writing the bill to exclude those companies from getting the money?
 
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I4CAW

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The guy in the link below. When they arrested him, they had to strip search him, and his entire penis was a dragon tattoo. Also, we went to a cabin in Tims Ford, Tennessee for a birthday when I was a kid. We built a bonfire at night, and saw two flashlights walking towards each other in the woods in the distance in the middle of the night. My friend's dad just said they were probably raccoon hunters. Turns out, the killer's girlfriend's trailer was a quarter mile away from where we stayed, and they would meet up late at night.

https://deathrow2019usa.blogspot.com/2019/07/charles-randall-stewart-alabama.html

EDIT:
Are we talking



Or more like



Asking for a friend ...
 

Jackson-3

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Strict laws and swift punishment in communist countries prevents a lot of crime, and I am pretty sure China does not have anyone on "death row" for an extended period of time...probably 24 hours or less.
while i was there, 7 guys got caught with a small amount of drugs (not familiar with sizes but it was explained as a misdemeanor amount in the US) and they were tried, sentenced and put to death within a couple weeks. It was pretty eye opening. they also have one of the highest college/university level suicide rates just based off of if you fall behind you are kicked out, its shameful to the family so most are disowned and you wont have much of an opportunity to work your way back into a good situation.
 

Patrickthetiger

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So are you saying that the PPP program should have been more stringent means testing, i.e. go through an assessment of worthiness of these bailout funds?

Because as the law is written, none of the examples you've provided are illegal. I do agree with you that there is some level of fraud within the program:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-charged-rhode-island-stimulus-fraud
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/texa...f-fraud-false-statements-and-money-laundering
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/massachusetts-man-charged-covid-relief-fraud

I believe that accepting funds (if your organization is eligible per the rules) is ethical. Especially since the program has something like $110B left...

Shake Shack returned their PPP funds because at the time, there was concern that folks were getting locked out due to lack of funds in the program. They were roasted in the court of public opinion and acquiesced to the pressure. Yes, they are well-capitalized and may not have urgently needed the PPP funds, but their revenues have suffered due to COVID-19. I believe that there are thousands of companies that received funds that were in the same boat... but didn't catch the eye of the media, so they kept their funds.
 

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