The other side

[ricedp105]

Unions don't stop officers from being fired for bad behavior, it just has the leverage to know why you are getting fired. I think the problem is that you have to start with personal interaction with police behavior. As horrible as it seems, Floyd would be alive if he had just gotten in the police car. His murderer did not show up until later and then proceeded to pull him out of the car and have the officers kneel on him until he was dead. That guy came in with a bad attitude and was not even there for the problems but still hated Floyd for making him come down.

Mayor Giuliani(sp) was on the news the other day talking about how Minnesota structures their police force is wrong from the beginning, in that in NYC they would always have a lieutenant or captain on the scene and if things escalated quickly they would either be able to assist OR instruct the officer to leave the scene and provide extra help. In the instance of Floyd all of the officers around him just stood there with no other leadership present. THAT seems to be the biggest thing that needs to change in this situations..leadership from the top.

 

[KILLAKONG]

Not picky but WTF does their own people mean? Police officers are supposed to protect all and that includes the criminals. The thing is the criminals usually don't want to comply with their directions. The numbers back up their behavior so how do we change their perception?

Hey im trying man. I get caught up sometimes, but its natural. White people are his people also. Cops should care about everybody, even criminals as you stated. But you get what I was saying right?

 

[mattjake]

95% of this can be rectified by the person in Authority being nice. There are outliers across ever issue, but being nice to people works most of the time. They walk up with that shit. “You know why I stopped you”? Every single time.

 

[PocketWatch]

Unions don't stop officers from being fired for bad behavior, it just has the leverage to know why you are getting fired. I think the problem is that you have to start with personal interaction with police behavior. As horrible as it seems, Floyd would be alive if he had just gotten in the police car. His murderer did not show up until later and then proceeded to pull him out of the car and have the officers kneel on him until he was dead. That guy came in with a bad attitude and was not even there for the problems but still hated Floyd for making him come down.

Unions are the reason police are protected above and beyond anything reasonable.

if a police officer is fired for awful behavior from one department (which has to be pretty bad to happen), said officer can get a job with another department without the new department knowing of their past behavior and being fired for cause.

as to what you’re saying about starting with personal interactions - there’s no way in hell black America who just protested and rioted are going to go for that. If they won’t go for it then it’s not going to be effective. (Not will Poor whites go for it either, and they need to be part of efforts since more of them are killed.) working on police interactions appropriately comes last.

 

[ricedp105]

95% of this can be rectified by the person in Authority being nice. There are outliers across ever issue, but being nice to people works most of the time. They walk up with that shit. “You know why I stopped you”? Every single time.

I get what you're saying and I used to think this way until I did some ride alongs with a few of my cop friends that work/worked for MPD. If a cop is just laughing and smiling all the time are you going to take him seriously? Cops have been dicks to me too, but now I understand why based on what I saw with each encounter. You never know how people are going to react in the situation of getting pulled over, DUI check points, crime scenes, etc. Maybe cops should offer more citizens a chance to see what they experience and that would help ease some of the tensions? It certainly was an eye opener for me.

 

[mattjake]

I get what you're saying and I used to think this way until I did some ride alongs with a few of my cop friends that work/worked for MPD. If a cop is just laughing and smiling all the time are you going to take him seriously? Cops have been dicks to me too, but now I understand why based on what I saw with each encounter. You never know how people are going to react in the situation of getting pulled over, DUI check points, crime scenes, etc.

I’m talking about being Nice, not bro hugging or joking around. I’m talking about These people are my citizens, I am gonna treat them with dignity. There don’t have to be a big lecture section on a tail light being out.

 

[kenews]

Mayor Giuliani(sp) was on the news the other day talking about how Minnesota structures their police force is wrong from the beginning, in that in NYC they would always have a lieutenant or captain on the scene and if things escalated quickly they would either be able to assist OR instruct the officer to leave the scene and provide extra help. In the instance of Floyd all of the officers around him just stood there with no other leadership present. THAT seems to be the biggest thing that needs to change in this situations..leadership from the top.

I hate saying this but it is a little bit of selective memory. The thing is officers were much more active at the time and they were pulling in people off the streets a lot and they paired with an experienced officer but it was not always a Lt. or Cpt. People were on the side of the officers back then because we were having 2000 murders per year when he took charge. We are now down to 300 and the crime is down a lot. The community is just not as enthusiastic about aggressive policing as they used to be.

 

[aler]

Even black officers handle blacks differently than whites?

Yes they are far harsher

 

[kenews]

Hey im trying man. I get caught up sometimes, but its natural. White people are his people also. Cops should care about everybody, even criminals as you stated. But you get what I was saying right?

Yes I was just kidding because it happens all the time. It is so hard not to include your race when talking and trying to talk about big picture because you are right. They do seem to worry about favoritism but I wish I could tell them that they are going to get blamed for favoritism no matter who they bust, just depends on who they bust. I am fortunate that most don't catch me using my race, f'ing idiot, because that language is banned on most boards. I know people know my race in the stands because they used to yell out support when I made a bad call.

 

[rkspeck33]

Thats because they have a stigma. Black officers are the worst. They care more about being accepted than they do about their own people.

I do believe this. Cops are much like sports teams, where you don't call out your own or rat them out....You want to be accepted

 

[aulax08]

This issue of non compliance and regard for authority is not a generational issue. Its not a “kids these days aren’t raised to respect cops”. I’m 30 years old and saw this same behavior 15 years ago. If you look at music and entertainment over the last 60 years there has been an edge to say f&$@ the man forever. This is not a new problem. There are plenty of adults and middle aged people who are non compliant and treat cops like shit.

I also believe this is a double sided issue. Lack of empathy and lack of personal responsibility from both civilians and police. I’ve had my fair share of run ins with the cops and have a mixed bag of how I was treated.

I’ve seen lots of studies over the last few days analyzing police and race. Two figures stuck out to me the most. 1) police of any race are 18.5x more likely to be killed by a black man than a black man is to be killed by police 2) black and white police draw their weapons on black men at the same rate. These two figures would indicate that there is enormous tension between black men and police regardless of race. Police are likely generally terrified to interact with black men, causing them to be on edge. While black men are also likely scared of interaction with the police. How does this get fixed?

There is no immediate or even short term fix to this issue. I think there are a lot of good ideas in this thread about how to fix the issue. There’s also SO many factors at play here. Saying “family structure is how to fix this” as a blanket cure-all statement is ignorant. It’s a million times more complicated than that. But the solution has to come from cooperation on both sides. Both sides (police and civilians of ALL colors) need to start with communication, accepting personal responsibility, and empathy towards others.

 

[ricedp105]

Well said by this Milwaukee police chief

 

[OrigAUgirl]

There's definitely a socioeconomic piece as well as an educational to this puzzle. This video showing privilege started circulating again yesterday, and what stood out to me was that it wasn't just a black and white issue. Poor people, regardless of color, have a much tougher hill to climb and have less means by which to climb that same hill that I have to climb because I have several legs up and plenty of tools at my disposal because of the situation I was born into.

View embedded media

my favorite video to use with kids to help them understand privilege. Glad you shared here.

 

[crococile22]

Not picky but WTF does their own people mean? Police officers are supposed to protect all and that includes the criminals. The thing is the criminals usually don't want to comply with their directions. The numbers back up their behavior so how do we change their perception?

meanwhile turbo is pushing #****thepolice on socialmedia

 

[ricedp105]

Why are we also not discussing the black officer that was shot and killed last night over looters stealing TVs?
https://abcnews.go.com/US/small-tow...ded/story?id=71017820&cid=social_twitter_abcn
This man is a hero.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

my favorite video to use with kids to help them understand privilege. Glad you shared here.

It’s powerful. And I think it speaks directly to a lot of the angst and unrest in this country, on both sides. It’s why some of the rioters and looters are lashing out, and it’s why many of the white community “can’t understand.”

 

[cantbeonyou]

Black man complying still shot

 

[ricedp105]

It’s why some of the rioters and looters are lashing out

Eh, I don't agree with this, at all actually. The rioters and looters don't care about anything but their own selfish actions and stealing property from other hard working business owners..let me also add that the message has been bastardized by a domestic terrorist organization that is preying on peoples emotions to create anarchy.

 

[ricedp105]

View embedded media

Black man complying still shot

This is another problem, there are 340 M people in the country, 42 million African Americans...most people point to one instance of a bad cop from 6 years ago mind you and then use it to justify and apply it all cops being evil across the country.

 

[kenews]

meanwhile turbo is pushing #****thepolice on socialmedia

This is a time for the individuals in Turob's life to tell him he is contributing to the problem and not making them better. Kids are easily pulled into movements that are harmful if you let them. Problem is he will get thousands of likes from his friends but it is up to us to say the cops are not the bad guys, the bad guy is.

 

[crococile22]

This is a time for the individuals in Turob's life to tell him he is contributing to the problem and not making them better. Kids are easily pulled into movements that are harmful if you let them. Problem is he will get thousands of likes from his friends but it is up to us to say the cops are not the bad guys, the bad guy is.

usually follow him cause he's a positive guy that posts affirmations and bible verses every morning..... took him off my feed this morning

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

Eh, I don't agree with this, at all actually. The rioters and looters don't care about anything but their own selfish actions and stealing property from other hard working business owners..let me also add that the message has been bastardized by a domestic terrorist organization that is preying on peoples emotions to create anarchy.

What information or experience do you have that allowed you to come to this conclusion? How do you know this to be able to state this so factually?

 

[PocketWatch]

my favorite video to use with kids to help them understand privilege. Glad you shared here.

Because of your comment I watched the video.

It’s simplicity was a bit much for me, however depending on the age I could see it being a useful tool.

 

[ricedp105]

What information or experience do you have that allowed you to come to this conclusion? How do you know this to be able to state this so factually?

Are you actually serious or are you joking? Watch every damn video of those looting, they don't GAF about Floyd, they're taking advantage of the situation for their own self interest(mostly Antifa). Hell I saw video of one of the punks that got arrested with his mommy and daddy walking him to the court house..he wasn't "lashing out" due to police brutality/racial injustice he was being a punk ass kid with zero respect for other peoples property. Breaking shit, killing cops and stealing others property is not going to solve anything.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

Because of your comment I watched the video.

It’s simplicity was a bit much for me, however depending on the age I could see it being a useful tool.

I think this video in particular touches more on the educational and socioeconomic inequalities more than the racial inequalities. But I still think it shows how there's a higher likelihood you're privileged as a white person than any other race in this country. Not on the whole, but more likely.

 

[NPORTTIGER]

I thinks its from both sides. Officers handle blacks differently than whites causing animosity between the two.

Agree with that

 

[sjweagle]

I will when I get done with work. last year 40 unarmed criminals were killed by cops 9 were African Americans, most complaints of police brutality are by those of the same race. white on white black on black. there were 10.5 million arrests last year I think . I know the number is one arrest every 3 seconds. the odds of being killed by a cop are damn near 0

Aler obviously watches Real News (FOX News) as do I... Tucker Carlson last evening had guests confirming that last year there were 10 million arrests in the US. Out of those only 1,004 resulted in officer shootings from which only 41 involved unarmed assailants. Now out of this 41 certainly the corrupt/complicit media would have the ignorant masses believe 10,000 of those 41 unarmed were blacks but fake news aside... 19 were whites, 9 were blacks and 13 Latinos, Asians, etc.

Akin to the planned-demic (though the recent now passed planned-demic pales greatly in comparison) this is a liberal driven narrative/agenda manufactured by those whom seek to divide & harm the greatest country with which God has ever Blessed a people. Your welcome.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

Are you actually serious or are you joking? Watch every damn video of those looting, they don't GAF about Floyd, they're taking advantage of the situation for their own self interest. Hell I saw video of one of the punks that got arrested with his mommy and daddy walking him to the court house..he wasn't "lashing out" he was being a punk ass kid with zero respect for other peoples property.

Ok.

 

[PocketWatch]

What information or experience do you have that allowed you to come to this conclusion? How do you know this to be able to state this so factually?

As a former riot leader at an officially designated white people riot - Woodstock ‘99 - I’d like to address @ricedp105’s comments that you quoted.

It’s not that rioters are selfish or only care about stealing hard working business owners wares or whatever other word vomit Riced used, it’s that when we see an opportunity we take it.

Not to steal for the sake of stealing, but to be part of a larger whole having their voices heard by saying - using a personal example here based on my on unique experience - “The Rage Against the Machine t-shirts are too damn high and I’m going to take your egregious pricing any more!”

Rioters aren’t stupid. They’re opportunists.

So while you see nasty rioters, I see the future leaders of our country and world.

 

[kenews]

usually follow him cause he's a positive guy that posts affirmations and bible verses every morning..... took him off my feed this morning

That is the not the right thing to do. I know he is getting wrapped up in the negative attacks that all are pushing but he needs to know good people are not following him anymore, you just disagree with the quote and the overall belief.

 

[ricedp105]

As a former riot leader at an officially designated white people riot - Woodstock ‘99 - I’d like to address @ricedp105’s comments that you quoted.

It’s not that rioters are selfish or only care about stealing hard working business owners wares or whatever other word vomit Riced used, it’s that when we see an opportunity we take it.

Not to steal for the sake of stealing, but to be part of a larger whole having their voices heard by saying - using a personal example here based on my on unique experience - “The Rage Against the Machine t-shirts are too damn high and I’m going to take your egregious pricing any more!”

Rioters aren’t stupid. They’re opportunists.

So while you see nasty rioters, I see the future leaders of our country and world.

What is the difference in these two terms/ideas? Both involve stealing property from another human being for that persons self interest...Life, liberty, property...these thugs don't care about any of those principles. Give me a break. I mean the DOJ and the President labeled the main group responsibile as a domestic terrorist organization..WAKE UP. There is freaking barbed wire around Manhattan now due to this punk ass thugs that steal property because they can. A retired police officer, David Dorn, was shot and killed lack night due to protecting TVs from a small business in St. Louis..

 

[Bub1e]

It is no longer a family make up type thing anymore. It is more of a societal make up thing now. At a young age one of my children asked me why policeman were bad. I was blown away. I never taught this to my children. Where did they learn this? They learned it from entertainment, school and friends. They learned it from a society that is now teaching all cops are bad instead of teaching them cops are useful tools in a civil society. They are teaching them authority is inherently evil and not required in a do what ever makes you happy world. Society does not do a good enough job of explaining to the young that the evilness that killed Floyd is not the norm and most of this world is nothing like that. They are taught the opposite and that is very dangerous.

These are my thoughts exactly. The younger generation believes they do not have to do anything they don’t want to do. If they are told by a supervisor at work they need them to do something and they think they shouldn’t have to they will refuse to do it. They have no respect for any authority not just law enforcement.

My niece is an assistant principal of an elementary school in Denver, CO. Her boss instructed a young teacher to move her classroom materials to an other room. The teacher said “ she had too much stuff and was not moving”. My niece told me her boss looked at her and said “in 35 years of teaching I have never had a teacher refuse to move rooms when requested”.

This is a classic example of a younger generation individual that feels as though they do not have to do anything they don’t want and they have no respect for anyone in authority.

 

[carrytherocU]

Was driving early this morning listening to the radio and the other side was presented. The officer on the show did an okay job and brought up a lot of good points. One he was complaining about not having anyone address non compliance. He said that the situations escalate very quickly when the citizen does not comply with the officer. The one thing I worried about is the officer said that the black community has a much higher rate of non compliance from officers and it was rising rapidly. The announcer and officer both are black so I sincerely doubt you can put the narrative that they are for racial injustice just I think they are not being careful.

The numbers back up what they are saying but I believe that because they are focused on race so much they miss the underlying problems. I think it is the developmental behavior that causes the non compliance and the persistence of it. It starts at a young age and if they are one of those kids that have trouble with discipline they act out more in school and at home. They then begin a process of breaking the rules and they become accustomed to having confrontations with authority figures. So when a police officer arrives at a scene they are not going to comply.The cops then lose control if they are not very disciplined and the crazy ones will commit murder. Thing is I do no think those behaviors are based on race but family makeup. Anyway do you believe there is more non compliance today than there was 20 years ago?

I think this is correct, but also have to think of why noncompliance is on the rise. some comes from home, and the other comes from not respecting an officer. If an officer was responsible for the death of a friend of yours (lets say it wasn't justified) would you respect all officers? A lot of this is coming from distrust. I agree on family make up being a large portion of it.

 

[kenews]

These are my thoughts exactly. The younger generation believes they do not have to do anything they don’t want to do. If they are told by a supervisor at work they need them to do something and they think they shouldn’t have to they will refuse to do it. They have no respect for any authority not just law enforcement.

My niece is an assistant principal of an elementary school in Denver, CO. Her boss instructed a young teacher to move her classroom materials to an other room. The teacher said “ she had too much stuff and was not moving”. My niece told me her boss looked at her and said “in 35 years of teaching I have never had a teacher refuse to move rooms when requested”.

This is a classic example of a younger generation individual that feels as though they do not have to do anything they don’t want and they have no respect for anyone in authority.

I think this is correct, but also have to think of why noncompliance is on the rise. some comes from home, and the other comes from not respecting an officer. If an officer was responsible for the death of a friend of yours (lets say it wasn't justified) would you respect all officers? A lot of this is coming from distrust. I agree on family make up being a large portion of it.

We are to blame in the education system. We moved to a NCLB and it meant that graduating them was more important than anything else. Then we hit racial injustices and we were under mandates to reduce disciplinary actions by certain amounts each year. We kind of have gotten away from holding the individual responsible for his actions. In other words we got away from after school and weekday detentions. Couple that with the lack of support from parents and we hold a lot of blame. I am fortunate that most of my kids have done well after my time with them was over but have seen first hand the bad things that happen when you try to avoid being responsible on a personal level.

 

[ahwood84]

As @Hornacious posted earlier, the lack of respect for cops has become prevalent in culture today. It’s much bigger than the family breakdown line.

The white guy who murdered Lowndes County Sheriff Big John had a father. (Not sure if his parents were married but he definitely had a father.) it was all over big john turning his radio down at a gas station.

I understand your point about the white guy murdering the sheriff. I’ve seen whites and blacks from solid backgrounds commit crimes. So what I was saying certainly wasn’t dealing with absolutes. But I am convinced the culture I mentioned is a bigger part of the problem. So many kids raised without guidance. They get to be teenagers or young adults and respecting people much less authority Goes out the window. Agree with your point

 

[kenews]

I understand your point about the white guy murdering the sheriff. I’ve seen whites and blacks from solid backgrounds commit crimes. So what I was saying certainly wasn’t dealing with absolutes. But I am convinced the culture I mentioned is a bigger part of the problem. So many kids raised without guidance. They get to be teenagers or young adults and respecting people much less authority Goes out the window. Agree with your point

I agree that youth kind of need to be directed but you want to leave their freedom. The thing is we have to have rules and enforce them. You will not be able to reach murderers. They will have to be caught down the line doing something and you hope it is before they get the chance to murder.

 

[tigrdent]

I think family make up is BULLSHIT!!!! White America always wants to contribute problems in the black society to broken families. Black families have been broken since slavery. Family make up is not the problem.

If you think the wealth gap in this country is going to be narrowed through single family incomes in the AA community I would have to respectfully disagree....

 

[tigrdent]

I think family make up is BULLSHIT!!!! White America always wants to contribute problems in the black society to broken families. Black families have been broken since slavery. Family make up is not the problem.

and by the way in the 50's over 70 percent of AA's had two parents...now its under 30....so no...it hasn't "aways" been like that

 

[ricedp105]

Amen

 

[AU-Principal]

Where did you grow up? I had a great time on the fourth of July at the mall and had a friend visiting from New York. The metro had broken down and the crowd was getting hot and bothered. We started yelling tastes great and less filling from the different side of the tracks. The friend I was with was born in downtown Brooklyn and he said they would have been throwing rocks and shooting at each other if that happened in NYC.

So has it changed that much in your area or is it just perceived to have changed a lot?

This is long. Just saying.
I work in education and I feel it has changed a lot. Not just with respecting law enforcement but authority in general. I’m from Morgan County in North Alabama and we have it better than most just because we are from the South. Some kids are still taught respect. BUT, kids still back-to Police officers, Sheriff’s deputies, State Troopers, Teachers, Principals, you name it. Also when the parents get there to back their child up, they usually start with a cursing tirade and you don’t have to wonder then why the kids act the way they do. When I got in trouble at school (and I got in plenty), my parents never came to the school to confront the teacher or Principal; they confronted me. I never was disrespectful but I was very mischievous. They backed the teacher and Principal 100%. No questions. I also don’t think times have changed to make it this way. Parents have changed. Kids will still do whatever they are allowed to get away with, just like I did. Always have.
I once had a parent tell me her daughter wouldn’t lie to her, after the kid’s Principal and I watched a video of the bus route where the girl got in trouble. She was 11. Name me an 11 year old that won’t lie. There isn’t one.