The other side

[kenews]

Was driving early this morning listening to the radio and the other side was presented. The officer on the show did an okay job and brought up a lot of good points. One he was complaining about not having anyone address non compliance. He said that the situations escalate very quickly when the citizen does not comply with the officer. The one thing I worried about is the officer said that the black community has a much higher rate of non compliance from officers and it was rising rapidly. The announcer and officer both are black so I sincerely doubt you can put the narrative that they are for racial injustice just I think they are not being careful.

The numbers back up what they are saying but I believe that because they are focused on race so much they miss the underlying problems. I think it is the developmental behavior that causes the non compliance and the persistence of it. It starts at a young age and if they are one of those kids that have trouble with discipline they act out more in school and at home. They then begin a process of breaking the rules and they become accustomed to having confrontations with authority figures. So when a police officer arrives at a scene they are not going to comply.The cops then lose control if they are not very disciplined and the crazy ones will commit murder. Thing is I do no think those behaviors are based on race but family makeup. Anyway do you believe there is more non compliance today than there was 20 years ago?

 

[Bub1e]

Was driving early this morning listening to the radio and the other side was presented. The officer on the show did an okay job and brought up a lot of good points. One he was complaining about not having anyone address non compliance. He said that the situations escalate very quickly when the citizen does not comply with the officer. The one thing I worried about is the officer said that the black community has a much higher rate of non compliance from officers and it was rising rapidly. The announcer and officer both are black so I sincerely doubt you can put the narrative that they are for racial injustice just I think they are not being careful.

The numbers back up what they are saying but I believe that because they are focused on race so much they miss the underlying problems. I think it is the developmental behavior that causes the non compliance and the persistence of it. It starts at a young age and if they are one of those kids that have trouble with discipline they act out more in school and at home. They then begin a process of breaking the rules and they become accustomed to having confrontations with authority figures. So when a police officer arrives at a scene they are not going to comply.The cops then lose control if they are not very disciplined and the crazy ones will commit murder. Thing is I do no think those behaviors are based on race but family makeup. Anyway do you believe there is more non compliance today than there was 20 years ago?

Yes absolutely

 

[AU-Principal]

Yes. No doubt. When I was growing up, when a police officer told you to do something, you did it. End of story. Your parents taught you that from an early age. We were taught that police officers were our friends and there to help. I don't think that gets taught much in the home anymore. JMHO.

 

[NPORTTIGER]

No doubt. There is an arrogant attitude and disrespect that police get every single day that escalates things quickly because they want to get home to their families just like you and I and everyone else.

 

[aler]

Was driving early this morning listening to the radio and the other side was presented. The officer on the show did an okay job and brought up a lot of good points. One he was complaining about not having anyone address non compliance. He said that the situations escalate very quickly when the citizen does not comply with the officer. The one thing I worried about is the officer said that the black community has a much higher rate of non compliance from officers and it was rising rapidly. The announcer and officer both are black so I sincerely doubt you can put the narrative that they are for racial injustice just I think they are not being careful.

The numbers back up what they are saying but I believe that because they are focused on race so much they miss the underlying problems. I think it is the developmental behavior that causes the non compliance and the persistence of it. It starts at a young age and if they are one of those kids that have trouble with discipline they act out more in school and at home. They then begin a process of breaking the rules and they become accustomed to having confrontations with authority figures. So when a police officer arrives at a scene they are not going to comply.The cops then lose control if they are not very disciplined and the crazy ones will commit murder. Thing is I do no think those behaviors are based on race but family makeup. Anyway do you believe there is more non compliance today than there was 20 years ago?

great post

 

[aler]

No doubt. There is an arrogant attitude and disrespect that police get every single day that escalates things quickly because they want to get home to their families just like you and I and everyone else.

way more unarmed whites get killed by cops than any other race. disproportionately so when compared to actual crime rates

 

[kenews]

Yes absolutely

I think it is the same as before and I am definitely not thinking it is a racial trait. The riots look horrible but it is a nation wide thing to dislike authority. Some of the worst non compliance comes from people in authority who think they are the authority. I think maybe that should be brought into all truthful dialogue. It is painful but you have to look at what your actions might be that lead up to the tragedies. Are you the police chief who ignores police misbehavior? Are you the Mayor who refuses to address compliance with the officers first and then bring up your complaint? Are you the community members who take videos and yell profanities at peaceful police? Are you the police officer who goes into the situation like a bull in a China shop or expecting confrontation before there is?
Those are some of the questions that should be act but we will never get there. The little catch phrases and protests will not change anything until the individual change their behavior patterns.

 

[KILLAKONG]

way more unarmed whites get killed by cops than any other race. disproportionately so when compared to actual crime rates

Link with these stats

 

[WiseBlood]

Yessir, no sir, please sir, thank you sir. Works like a charm.

 

[PocketWatch]

Was driving early this morning listening to the radio and the other side was presented. The officer on the show did an okay job and brought up a lot of good points. One he was complaining about not having anyone address non compliance. He said that the situations escalate very quickly when the citizen does not comply with the officer. The one thing I worried about is the officer said that the black community has a much higher rate of non compliance from officers and it was rising rapidly. The announcer and officer both are black so I sincerely doubt you can put the narrative that they are for racial injustice just I think they are not being careful.

The numbers back up what they are saying but I believe that because they are focused on race so much they miss the underlying problems. I think it is the developmental behavior that causes the non compliance and the persistence of it. It starts at a young age and if they are one of those kids that have trouble with discipline they act out more in school and at home. They then begin a process of breaking the rules and they become accustomed to having confrontations with authority figures. So when a police officer arrives at a scene they are not going to comply.The cops then lose control if they are not very disciplined and the crazy ones will commit murder. Thing is I do no think those behaviors are based on race but family makeup. Anyway do you believe there is more non compliance today than there was 20 years ago?

I believe family make up is a red herring.

Even if it’s not, it’s not something that can be controlled or really influenced much these days. You have to work in other areas. (Actually it could be influenced but if I said how then our mod would ban me for eternity.)

The relationship between police and the majority of citizens is what can be improved by getting rid of the few bad police who are the vast majority of bad experiences people (especially minorities) have with police. This can only happen once police unions are abolished.

 

[KILLAKONG]

No doubt. There is an arrogant attitude and disrespect that police get every single day that escalates things quickly because they want to get home to their families just like you and I and everyone else.

I thinks its from both sides. Officers handle blacks differently than whites causing animosity between the two.

 

[kenews]

Yes. No doubt. When I was growing up, when a police officer told you to do something, you did it. End of story. Your parents taught you that from an early age. We were taught that police officers were our friends and there to help. I don't think that gets taught much in the home anymore. JMHO.

Where did you grow up? I had a great time on the fourth of July at the mall and had a friend visiting from New York. The metro had broken down and the crowd was getting hot and bothered. We started yelling tastes great and less filling from the different side of the tracks. The friend I was with was born in downtown Brooklyn and he said they would have been throwing rocks and shooting at each other if that happened in NYC.

So has it changed that much in your area or is it just perceived to have changed a lot?

 

[aler]

Link with these stats

I will when I get done with work. last year 40 unarmed criminals were killed by cops 9 were African american, most complaints of police brutality are by those of the same race. white on white black on black. there were 10.5 million arrests last year I think . I know the number is one arrest every 3 seconds. the odds of being killed by a cop are damn near 0

 

[PocketWatch]

Yessir, no sir, please sir, thank you sir. Works like a charm.

Except when you have a bad experience where an officer is a total asshole. Then if you have a second, you’re probably done with the sir answers as you’ll presume officers are not to be respected or trusted.

This would only change if an officer somehow took the time to get through to you, which simply wouldn’t happen often due to time constraints and numerous other factors.

 

[KILLAKONG]

I believe family make up is a red herring.

Even if it’s not, it’s not something that can be controlled or really influenced much these days. You have to work in other areas. (Actually it could be influenced but if I said how then our mod would ban me for eternity.)

The relationship between police and the majority of citizens is what can be improved by getting rid of the few bad police who are the vast majority of bad experiences people (especially minorities) have with police. This can only happen once police unions are abolished.

I think family make up is BULLSHIT!!!! White America always wants to contribute problems in the black society to broken families. Black families have been broken since slavery. Family make up is not the problem.

 

[KILLAKONG]

I will when I get done with work. last year 40 unarmed criminals were killed by cops 9 were African american, most complaints of police brutality are by those of the same race. white on white black on black. there were 10.5 million arrests last year I think . I know the number is one arrest every 3 seconds. the odds of being killed by a cop are damn near 0

How many innocent blacks were killed by cops compared to whites? You said criminals in your original post.

 

[kenews]

I believe family make up is a red herring.

Even if it’s not, it’s not something that can be controlled or really influenced much these days. You have to work in other areas. (Actually it could be influenced but if I said how then our mod would ban me for eternity.)

The relationship between police and the majority of citizens is what can be improved by getting rid of the few bad police who are the vast majority of bad experiences people (especially minorities) have with police. This can only happen once police unions are abolished.

Now I think family life and education coming up is very important but we can't change any family life but our own. We can help them financially but they have to have the desire to fix the problem.

Where I think you are wrong is when you say that fire the few cops will take care of the problem. I think the officer brought up a great point about trying to get compliance as not a bad thing. You can not tell me that you have watched the riots, and I am not going to say peaceful protests anymore, with a full out assault on all police. They have behaved admirably in the face of everyone attacking them constantly. You are not seeing a lot of we are one country signs and love your neighbor going down the streets. We have to do our part to say unacceptable behavior is unacceptable to us.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

There's definitely a socioeconomic piece as well as an educational to this puzzle. This video showing privilege started circulating again yesterday, and what stood out to me was that it wasn't just a black and white issue. Poor people, regardless of color, have a much tougher hill to climb and have less means by which to climb that same hill that I have to climb because I have several legs up and plenty of tools at my disposal because of the situation I was born into.

 

[ricedp105]

I think family make up is BULLSHIT!!!! White America always wants to contribute problems in the black society to broken families. Black families have been broken since slavery. Family make up is not the problem.

Statistics show that men who grow up in single parent households are more likely to commit crimes than those with both a mother and father..statistically speaking that's more prevalent in the black community. Generally males that don't have a father figure act out against authority, every single study in the world point that out.

 

[PocketWatch]

way more unarmed whites get killed by cops than any other race. disproportionately so when compared to actual crime rates

Link with these stats

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

The stat you want to be yelling @KILLAKONG is a higher percentage of black Americans than white Americans are killed by police as a percentage of total population.

Both that and @aler’s statement about more whites are killed than blacks are true.

Both statements are also worthless and are only used to argue something whoever is using them already believes. On their on, they’re worthless stats.

 

[Hornacious]

Was driving early this morning listening to the radio and the other side was presented. The officer on the show did an okay job and brought up a lot of good points. One he was complaining about not having anyone address non compliance. He said that the situations escalate very quickly when the citizen does not comply with the officer. The one thing I worried about is the officer said that the black community has a much higher rate of non compliance from officers and it was rising rapidly. The announcer and officer both are black so I sincerely doubt you can put the narrative that they are for racial injustice just I think they are not being careful.

The numbers back up what they are saying but I believe that because they are focused on race so much they miss the underlying problems. I think it is the developmental behavior that causes the non compliance and the persistence of it. It starts at a young age and if they are one of those kids that have trouble with discipline they act out more in school and at home. They then begin a process of breaking the rules and they become accustomed to having confrontations with authority figures. So when a police officer arrives at a scene they are not going to comply.The cops then lose control if they are not very disciplined and the crazy ones will commit murder. Thing is I do no think those behaviors are based on race but family makeup. Anyway do you believe there is more non compliance today than there was 20 years ago?

It is no longer a family make up type thing anymore. It is more of a societal make up thing now. At a young age one of my children asked me why policeman were bad. I was blown away. I never taught this to my children. Where did they learn this? They learned it from entertainment, school and friends. They learned it from a society that is now teaching all cops are bad instead of teaching them cops are useful tools in a civil society. They are teaching them authority is inherently evil and not required in a do what ever makes you happy world. Society does not do a good enough job of explaining to the young that the evilness that killed Floyd is not the norm and most of this world is nothing like that. They are taught the opposite and that is very dangerous.

 

[DufnerFanBoy]

way more unarmed whites get killed by cops than any other race. disproportionately so when compared to actual crime rates

Not disagreeing with you at all because I haven't done the research, but do you have any studies that show that that you could link? I've seen a lot of people say this recently, and I'd like to read it.

 

[kenews]

Link with these stats

He is right. You can't really make a judgment on these types of situations as they are all different and some are justified. I know the focus is on race but it shouldn't be. People can not control their skin color but they can control their behavior. We do not have a systemic problem with race we have individuals who behave poorly.

 

[KILLAKONG]

Yessir, no sir, please sir, thank you sir. Works like a charm.

I thinks that's bull also. That's for elders, business,pastors, but not for the 19 year old prick that just pulled me over. Just my opinion. I shouldn't have to yes sir a person to death to leave me alone.

 

[kenews]

Not disagreeing with you at all because I haven't done the research, but do you have any studies that show that that you could link? I've seen a lot of people say this recently, and I'd like to read it.

It is not a study. The thing is white people are not a minority so you can not scream racial injustice. There is very little help from civil liberty lawyers because the money is not there for support.

 

[kenews]

I thinks that's bull also. That's for elders, business,pastors, but not for the 19 year old prick that just pulled me over. Just my opinion. I shouldn't have to yes sir a person to death to leave me alone.

So you have a problem with authority and it bothers you to just say yes sire I was wrong for speeding? What would it hurt you and did your actions cause the officer to be more pissed off at the next stop? The real dialogue will not happen because people will use race as an excuse for a reason not to change their personal behavior. The officer should have said may I see your license sir, but I doubt he did his courtesy part either. I can not admonish him now so you are getting my "Coach" voice.

 

[PocketWatch]

I thinks its from both sides. Officers handle blacks differently than whites causing animosity between the two.

Even black officers handle blacks differently than whites?

 

[mattjake]

In my 30 years of driving I have been stopped numerous times. There have been two times out of 20 when the officers spoke to me like a human being and I’m white. They don’t know how to talk to people. When they decide to be nice (Roadhouse), This will get much better.

 

[PocketWatch]

Not disagreeing with you at all because I haven't done the research, but do you have any studies that show that that you could link? I've seen a lot of people say this recently, and I'd like to read it.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

That’s one.

The line the other side uses is that a higher percentage of blacks than whites are shot by police. (As a share of total population.) this is also true.

Both stats are pretty worthless without a helluva lot more info.

 

[ahwood84]

Was driving early this morning listening to the radio and the other side was presented. The officer on the show did an okay job and brought up a lot of good points. One he was complaining about not having anyone address non compliance. He said that the situations escalate very quickly when the citizen does not comply with the officer. The one thing I worried about is the officer said that the black community has a much higher rate of non compliance from officers and it was rising rapidly. The announcer and officer both are black so I sincerely doubt you can put the narrative that they are for racial injustice just I think they are not being careful.

The numbers back up what they are saying but I believe that because they are focused on race so much they miss the underlying problems. I think it is the developmental behavior that causes the non compliance and the persistence of it. It starts at a young age and if they are one of those kids that have trouble with discipline they act out more in school and at home. They then begin a process of breaking the rules and they become accustomed to having confrontations with authority figures. So when a police officer arrives at a scene they are not going to comply.The cops then lose control if they are not very disciplined and the crazy ones will commit murder. Thing is I do no think those behaviors are based on race but family makeup. Anyway do you believe there is more non compliance today than there was 20 years ago?

This is a huge part of the problem. Kids having kids. Fatherless with no discipline. Disregard for authority. Left to fend for themselves. Living on and off the street. It would be interesting to know how many of those people looting and burning come from that kind of background.

A cops job today is harder than It’s ever been. I believe most cops do a great job under tremendous pressure. Imagine every encounter you have daily could result in your injury or death. Every traffic stop. Every disturbance call like last night in Moody Alabama. What would that do to your psyche ? I wonder how many become hardened by the dangers of their jobs.

I also understand the black communities concerns over brutality. How does that impact their psyche? We’ve seen it since Minneapolis. And in incidents of the past.

When you have to police a generation raised with no guidance your going to have conflict. There is no denying law enforcement needs to train more strategically given today’s environment. And some way the newer generations need to be taught respect and how to respond to difficult situations.

The question becomes how do you accomplish this ? Identifying training and selection processes for police Is a start. But how do you turn back newer generations that aren’t being raised to be accountable? That’s a socio economic situation more difficult to improve upon.

 

[KILLAKONG]

Even black officers handle blacks differently than whites?

Thats because they have a stigma. Black officers are the worst. They care more about being accepted than they do about their own people.

 

[PocketWatch]

Now I think family life and education coming up is very important but we can't change any family life but our own. We can help them financially but they have to have the desire to fix the problem.

Where I think you are wrong is when you say that fire the few cops will take care of the problem. I think the officer brought up a great point about trying to get compliance as not a bad thing. You can not tell me that you have watched the riots, and I am not going to say peaceful protests anymore, with a full out assault on all police. They have behaved admirably in the face of everyone attacking them constantly. You are not seeing a lot of we are one country signs and love your neighbor going down the streets. We have to do our part to say unacceptable behavior is unacceptable to us.

That’s not my argument.

Getting rid of police unions is the first and most important step that all over steps depend.

After that, a whole host of reforms need to happen. Higher pay; better working conditions; more and better training; better policies like not sending a white officer straight out of the academy alone to a minority Neighborhood in the middle of the night and then be shocked when something bad happens; etc.

After those are done, then you can have all these getting out into the community and building relationships and listening sessions. Listen away then. Cause at this point it’ll actually be helpful.

Unless police unions are abolished there’s no chance of any of the other reforms or structural changes helping much, and without both theres damn sure no reason to do community outreach and listening when the organization isn’t capable of what they’d be saying it was in the outreach sessions.

 

[kenews]

This is a huge part of the problem. Kids having kids. Fatherless with no discipline. Disregard for authority. Left to fend for themselves. Living on and off the street. It would be interesting to know how many of those people looting and burning come from that kind of background.

A cops job today is harder than It’s ever been. I believe most cops do a great job under tremendous pressure. Imagine every encounter you have daily could result in your injury or death. Every traffic stop. Every disturbance call like last night in Moody Alabama. What would that do to your psyche ? I wonder how many become hardened by the dangers of their jobs.

I also understand the black communities concerns over brutality. How does that impact their psyche? We’ve seen it since Minneapolis. And in incidents of the past.

When you have to police a generation raised with no guidance your going to have conflict. There is no denying law enforcement needs to train more strategically given today’s environment. And some way the newer generations need to be taught respect and how to respond to difficult situations.

The question becomes how do you accomplish this ? Identifying training and selection processes for police Is a start. But how do you turn back newer generations that aren’t being raised to be accountable? That’s a socio economic situation more difficult to improve upon.

I have done my unit, team and class all the same. Most come from a poor background but do not want to be bad guys they just want to belong. They want to be an integral part. Race, sex, sexual preference, etc. do not have a place in my room and never will. I worry about my kids that are not disciplined when they leave because then I lose them to their environment.

We do not know how to combat that environment outside but we sure as hell can control school behavior. The first thing to do is to find them a way to be successful and have a path forward. That would mean abandoning our stupid one curriculum fits all pattern but that is for another day. The next thing we have to do is have the community take control. They need to have discipline and opportunities for success. All that takes place and the police are not needed.

 

[PocketWatch]

Thats because they have a stigma. Black officers are the worst. They care more about being accepted than they do about their own people.

So how do you propose that problem is solved?

 

[KILLAKONG]

So how do you propose that problem is solved?

I have no idea. Its a problem though. Black officers either have a stigma or they or to afraid to report the dirty cops on staff with them. Either or is unacceptable.

 

[PocketWatch]

This is a huge part of the problem. Kids having kids. Fatherless with no discipline. Disregard for authority. Left to fend for themselves. Living on and off the street. It would be interesting to know how many of those people looting and burning come from that kind of background.

A cops job today is harder than It’s ever been. I believe most cops do a great job under tremendous pressure. Imagine every encounter you have daily could result in your injury or death. Every traffic stop. Every disturbance call like last night in Moody Alabama. What would that do to your psyche ? I wonder how many become hardened by the dangers of their jobs.

I also understand the black communities concerns over brutality. How does that impact their psyche? We’ve seen it since Minneapolis. And in incidents of the past.

When you have to police a generation raised with no guidance your going to have conflict. There is no denying law enforcement needs to train more strategically given today’s environment. And some way the newer generations need to be taught respect and how to respond to difficult situations.

The question becomes how do you accomplish this ? Identifying training and selection processes for police Is a start. But how do you turn back newer generations that aren’t being raised to be accountable? That’s a socio economic situation more difficult to improve upon.

As @Hornacious posted earlier, the lack of respect for cops has become prevalent in culture today. It’s much bigger than the family breakdown line.

The white guy who murdered Lowndes County Sheriff Big John had a father. (Not sure if his parents were married but he definitely had a father.) it was all over big john turning his radio down at a gas station.

 

[PocketWatch]

I have no idea. Its a problem though. Black officers either have a stigma or they or to afraid to report the dirty cops on staff with them. Either or is unacceptable.

Can black cops not be dirty cops also?

I believe there are some bad police of every race. When they can’t be fired then why would they be motivated to not be an awful cop? The problem is bigger than race.

 

[kenews]

That’s not my argument.

Getting rid of police unions is the first and most important step that all over steps depend.

After that, a whole host of reforms need to happen. Higher pay; better working conditions; more and better training; better policies like not sending a white officer straight out of the academy alone to a minority Neighborhood in the middle of the night and then be shocked when something bad happens; etc.

After those are done, then you can have all these getting out into the community and building relationships and listening sessions. Listen away then. Cause at this point it’ll actually be helpful.

Unless police unions are abolished there’s no chance of any of the other reforms or structural changes helping much, and without both theres damn sure no reason to do community outreach and listening when the organization isn’t capable of what they’d be saying it was in the outreach sessions.

Unions don't stop officers from being fired for bad behavior, it just has the leverage to know why you are getting fired. I think the problem is that you have to start with personal interaction with police behavior. As horrible as it seems, Floyd would be alive if he had just gotten in the police car. His murderer did not show up until later and then proceeded to pull him out of the car and have the officers kneel on him until he was dead. That guy came in with a bad attitude and was not even there for the problems but still hated Floyd for making him come down.

 

[kenews]

Thats because they have a stigma. Black officers are the worst. They care more about being accepted than they do about their own people.

Not picky but WTF does their own people mean? Police officers are supposed to protect all and that includes the criminals. The thing is the criminals usually don't want to comply with their directions. The numbers back up their behavior so how do we change their perception?

 

[KILLAKONG]

Can black cops not be dirty cops also?

I believe there are some bad police of every race. When they can’t be fired then why would they be motivated to not be an awful cop? The problem is bigger than race.

ABSOLUTLEY!!!!!!