So Covid19 didn't kill us all. Now civil war talk. If this fails what is next. Coincidence? Nope

[gurutas]

OHHH NOOOOOOOOOO WE MUST SHUT EVERYTHING DOWN

I will not condemn those who had the decisions to make. They erred on the side of lives, getting information from people whose jobs and lives had been devoted to understanding and knowing the answer to the problem. Except they didn’t have the answers...only graphs and charts and curves.

If we had been in this thing alone it would have been easier to point fingers. But the entire world was effected, the world’s economy was effected. Even now, the world is not looking to us for answers. They want our help with equipment but they aren’t looking to us for answers on how to defeat this thing. Everybody, every state, is dealing as best they can with something we know precious little about. There have been some wrong calls made, Andrew Cuomo. But hopefully there have also been some right calls made. We’re all just muddling through until some breakthrough comes about, whenever that is, flying by the seat of our pants.

 

[Stumpfan]

Yep. Including the over 50% that have died from Dem governors sending the virus into nursing homes.

Lol. Not that myth again. You’re once again making threads political. What a shock.

 

[Stumpfan]

The numbers are going up. I’m not denying that. I just agree with @T I G E R on this
This is a pretty good site to track state by state
https://rt.live/

But it’s not testing now. We tested almost the exact same as a week ago but have more cases. The percentage testing positive has started to go up for the first time. In AZ, 20% of people taking the test are positive. That April NYC numbers.

 

[Stumpfan]

Positive rates have remained below 9% since April in the “hotspot” of Alabama.

More testing = more cases.

Oh. I thought we were talking about the nation. For the first time, cases went up with the same testing.

 

[Stumpfan]

I didn’t realize that. It’s really strange how it seems to pop up certain places. Thankfully I’m youngish and healthyish

The good thing is deaths have went down but that usually comes later. I definitely don’t see 1500-2000 deaths a day as people at risk are staying away hopefully. I’ve said for 2 months that we will just have constant 500-1000 deaths most days unless there is a second wave in the fall.

 

[gurutas]

No. You pretty much said they aren’t healthy anyway so no big deal.

I said no big deal?

What I’m saying is that a large majority of those people would be in the 8,000 that die each day from all causes that nobody bats an eye at.

Except Covid invented a new way to die and it aggravates existing conditions that were treatable, if not curable, to the point that it brings on death. It also alters the insides of the body for those who happen to survive it. I don’t think you can say in any shape or form that a large majority would have died anyway. That “large majority” might could have survived another month, year, decade longer with their pre-existing condition had not this virus been the contributing factor of their demise. Covid decided those 8000 people would die when they did and it took those lives in a particularly harsh way.

 

[Stumpfan]

Except Covid invented a new way to die and it aggravates existing conditions that were treatable, if not curable, to the point that it brings on death. It also alters the insides of the body for those who happen to survive it. I don’t think you can say in any shape or form that a large majority would have died anyway. That “large majority” might could have survived another month, year, decade longer with their pre-existing condition had not this virus been the contributing factor of their demise. Covid decided those 8000 people would die when they did and it took those lives in a particularly harsh way.

Nonsense. They would’ve died now or in another month or two. Lol

 

[T I G E R]

Except Covid invented a new way to die and it aggravates existing conditions that were treatable, if not curable, to the point that it brings on death. It also alters the insides of the body for those who happen to survive it. I don’t think you can say in any shape or form that a large majority would have died anyway. That “large majority” might could have survived another month, year, decade longer with their pre-existing condition had not this virus been the contributing factor of their demise. Covid decided those 8000 people would die when they did and it took those lives in a particularly harsh way.

it is an extreme minority of people that have any lasting effect from covid, same as any other virus.

 

[gurutas]

Not saying you are but if by breakthrough you mean vaccine I wouldn’t count on that. We would be hearing positive news if that was moving along but it’s not. We just gonna have to ride this out

I didn’t necessarily mean a vaccine, just anything in the way of good news. A vaccine would be great, obviously. I think it more likely they are not close to developing one. But something to assist with treating someone once they’ve tested positive and exhibiting symptoms that might tilt the scales toward assured survival expectations would also be good. I think it would be a breakthrough to know for certain how it spreads, how far it spreads, and how long the it lives. We’ve all seen the graphics of what they think happens if someone sneezes. But even that info changes. I guess just solid info would be a breakthrough. If we know the facts, however dire they may be, we can deal with it. It’s the unknown that is so frightening.

 

[gurutas]

Nonsense. They would’ve died now or in another month or two. Lol

I don’t even know what this statement means. Nor if you really believe it.

 

[gurutas]

it is an extreme minority of people that have any lasting effect from covid, same as any other virus.

And you are quoting whose facts?

 

[T I G E R]

And you are quoting whose facts?

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/06/02/covid-health-effects

as noted, an extreme minority.

https://www.fortune.com/2020/06/16/long-term-effects-of-coronavirus-covid-19-symptoms-how-long-to-recover-lungs-headaches-exhaustion-heart-issues/amp/

another article citing a research doctor involved in one of the largest covid studies... most symptoms go away completely and it’s not a matter of if, it’s when.

 

[thesugar6]

That was last month’s excuse. Testing is leveling out and cases are still going up. We just had the most cases in one day since May 1. At least the NE has lowered their cases drastically.

Ehhh. Not exactly. Testing has gone up a lot in the state that are rising. US testing pretty flat although I think today was the highest testing day yet. It’s the states rising that are seeing a lot of testing increases though. Good news is deaths are down. Guess even though nobody is saying it, we must either be treating it better or these test results are faulty. Large percentage of positives are asymptomatic. Has it weakened? Are we treating it better? It has to be something

 

[gurutas]

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/06/02/covid-health-effects

as noted, an extreme minority.

https://www.fortune.com/2020/06/16/long-term-effects-of-coronavirus-covid-19-symptoms-how-long-to-recover-lungs-headaches-exhaustion-heart-issues/amp/

another article citing a research doctor involved in one of the largest covid studies... most symptoms go away completely and it’s not a matter of if, it’s when.

Did you read the first article or just read the bold print in the headline? I only read the first article you attached and I thought it was quite dismal. They don’t yet know all the long-term, lingering effects. A doctor at UAB wrote an article a couple of weeks ago concerning the clotting problems they are now encountering and what all can happen with those. Your article spoke of the lung abnormalities that sounded a lot like emphysema-type issues. That article, while I saw the headline, was not nearly as cavalier sounding as what you said. If you think 12% or 30% is extreme minority then we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[T I G E R]

Did you read the first article or just read the bold print in the headline? I only read the first article you attached and I thought it was quite dismal. They don’t yet know all the long-term, lingering effects. A doctor at UAB wrote an article a couple of weeks ago concerning the clotting problems they are now encountering and what all can happen with those. Your article spoke of the lung abnormalities that sounded a lot like emphysema-type issues. That article, while I saw the headline, was not nearly as cavalier sounding as what you said. If you think 12% or 30% is extreme minority then we will just have to agree to disagree.

it’s not 12% or 30% of those who get it, it’s that of those that are hospitalized with severe disease, which is less than 5%. so it’s a fraction of 5%. furthermore, the research scientist in the second article is quoted as saying “when” people heal, not if. there is absolutely no evidence of long term damage in covid patients in any format thus far. that is irrefutable fact.

painting this virus in any format as a risk worth mentioning for those under 60 is disingenuous at best and downright malicious at worst.

 

[Jim in Scranton]

Lol. Not that myth again. You’re once again making threads political. What a shock.

Once again? I rarely talk politics dumbfvck.

Here’s a chart for you. I’m sure it’s way over your head, but maybe someone can explain it to you.

 

[gurutas]

it’s not 12% or 30% of those who get it, it’s that of those that are hospitalized with severe disease, which is less than 5%. so it’s a fraction of 5%. furthermore, the research scientist in the second article is quoted as saying “when” people heal, not if. there is absolutely no evidence of long term damage in covid patients in any format thus far. that is irrefutable fact.

painting this virus in any format as a risk worth mentioning for those under 60 is disingenuous at best and downright malicious at worst.

I read the second article and still fail to see where you get your number. I did find these statements...
“The new coronavirus and the disease it causes are still just months old,
meaning researchers have not been able to study the disease's long-term effects on people.”

“Physicians report that patients hospitalized for Covid-19 are experiencing high rates of blood clots that can cause strokes, heart attacks, lung blockages, and other complications, ...

For instance, physicians are seeing an uptick in strokes among young patients with Covid-19.“

“Physicians have also found evidence of scarring in Covid-19 patients' lungs. According to Parshley, some CT scans show Covid-19 patients have light gray patches on their lungs called "ground-glass opacities," which don't always heal. One Chinese study found the patches in 77% of patients, Parshley reports.

Brennan explained that the "virus creates an incredibly aggressive immune response" that causes "spaces [in the lungs to be] filled with debris and pus, making your lungs less pliable." According to Brennan, this type of lung damage can be permanent and could result in reduced lung capacity. "Routine things, like running up a flight of stairs, would leave these individuals gasping for air," he said.

While it's too soon to tell whether the lung damage in Covid-19 patients will be permanent, researchshows that about one third of survivors of similar coronaviruses such as SARS and MERS had long-term lung damage.“


“Physicians have also reported an increase in inflammation of and damage to the heart muscle in Covid-19 patients. One study published in March found that out of 416 hospitalized Covid-19 patients, 19% showed signs of heart damage.

Another study from Wuhan published in January found 12% of Covid-19 patients showed signs of cardiovascular damage. Other studies have since found evidence of myocarditis, inflammation of the heart muscle that can cause scarring, and heart failure in Covid-19 patients.

Now, physicians warn that Covid-19 survivors may experience long-lasting cardiac damage and cardiovascular problems, which could increase their risk for heart attack and stroke. Doctors also warn Covid-19 could worsen existing heart problems.”

“Physicians and public health experts say more research—and time—is needed to understand the long-term effects of Covid-19 and the complications patients might encounter down the line and whether they have a chance of recovery.”

Even in the second article there is a statement of how unknown the long-term effects will be. It is too soon to know.

Nowhere did I see your 5% or a fraction of that percentage mentioned. Research is ongoing with no final numbers in the record. But the closing statement of it’s not a matter of if but when effects go away sort of comes from left field. There is nothing prior to that statement that backs this up. Both articles are reporting on what is currently being seen along with the clear statement of “we don’t yet know” anything because we’ve only been dealing with this stuff a few months.

There are patients recovering well. But there are many who are not. It is not known if courses of treatment make a different or if there is something else just not yet found. To quote a study done at some point in March saying this is it is nowhere near accurate. Until the virus is over and real longterm effects can be studied, you can’t say the effects do not linger nor permanently remain with a person.

 

[T I G E R]

I read the second article and still fail to see where you get your number. I did find these statements...
“The new coronavirus and the disease it causes are still just months old,
meaning researchers have not been able to study the disease's long-term effects on people.”

“Physicians report that patients hospitalized for Covid-19 are experiencing high rates of blood clots that can cause strokes, heart attacks, lung blockages, and other complications, ...

For instance, physicians are seeing an uptick in strokes among young patients with Covid-19.“

“Physicians have also found evidence of scarring in Covid-19 patients' lungs. According to Parshley, some CT scans show Covid-19 patients have light gray patches on their lungs called "ground-glass opacities," which don't always heal. One Chinese study found the patches in 77% of patients, Parshley reports.

Brennan explained that the "virus creates an incredibly aggressive immune response" that causes "spaces [in the lungs to be] filled with debris and pus, making your lungs less pliable." According to Brennan, this type of lung damage can be permanent and could result in reduced lung capacity. "Routine things, like running up a flight of stairs, would leave these individuals gasping for air," he said.

While it's too soon to tell whether the lung damage in Covid-19 patients will be permanent, researchshows that about one third of survivors of similar coronaviruses such as SARS and MERS had long-term lung damage.“


“Physicians have also reported an increase in inflammation of and damage to the heart muscle in Covid-19 patients. One study published in March found that out of 416 hospitalized Covid-19 patients, 19% showed signs of heart damage.

Another study from Wuhan published in January found 12% of Covid-19 patients showed signs of cardiovascular damage. Other studies have since found evidence of myocarditis, inflammation of the heart muscle that can cause scarring, and heart failure in Covid-19 patients.

Now, physicians warn that Covid-19 survivors may experience long-lasting cardiac damage and cardiovascular problems, which could increase their risk for heart attack and stroke. Doctors also warn Covid-19 could worsen existing heart problems.”

“Physicians and public health experts say more research—and time—is needed to understand the long-term effects of Covid-19 and the complications patients might encounter down the line and whether they have a chance of recovery.”

Even in the second article there is a statement of how unknown the long-term effects will be. It is too soon to know.

Nowhere did I see your 5% or a fraction of that percentage mentioned. Research is ongoing with no final numbers in the record. But the closing statement of it’s not a matter of if but when effects go away sort of comes from left field. There is nothing prior to that statement that backs this up. Both articles are reporting on what is currently being seen along with the clear statement of “we don’t yet know” anything because we’ve only been dealing with this stuff a few months.

There are patients recovering well. But there are many who are not. It is not known if courses of treatment make a different or if there is something else just not yet found. To quote a study done at some point in March saying this is it is nowhere near accurate. Until the virus is over and real longterm effects can be studied, you can’t say the effects do not linger nor permanently remain with a person.

severe disease occurs in 5% or less of covid patients. there is no evidence any of these things occur in patients that do not develop severe disease.

again, the average healthy person under 60 stands an identical risk of death from the average, non-severe flu.

 

[thesugar6]

Once again? I rarely talk politics dumbfvck.

Here’s a chart for you. I’m sure it’s way over your head, but maybe someone can explain it to you.

If you really start looking at the total death rate and assume it’s normal growth year over year, you can easily see corona hasn’t caused as many deaths as reported. It’s still bad and a sickness and it effects some bad but nobody ever talks about how the numbers don’t add up

 

[DM8]

If you really start looking at the total death rate and assume it’s normal growth year over year, you can easily see corona hasn’t caused as many deaths as reported. It’s still bad and a sickness and it effects some bad but nobody ever talks about how the numbers don’t add up

You and @Jim in Scranton both declared COVID was an overblown media hoax back in March and said it was less of a threat than the seasonal flu. It's embarrassing you are still doubling down. You even claimed none of the shutdown measures were warranted unless the death toll from COVID exceeded seasonal flu total for this year. Thank goodness no one in a position of authority was listening to you.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong about the death toll. All of the data indicates the official death toll is significantly lower than the actual number of deaths. You can't spin the excess mortality numbers and they aren't limited to the US. Every country that has been hit hard around the world has had drastically more people than normal dying during the pandemic. You and Jim should admit you've been wrong about everything on this topic and stop embarrassing yourself with these continued desperate efforts to downplay.

Nationwide, at least 102,700 more people have died than usual between March 15 and May 23. That number is more than 20,700 higher than the official count of coronavirus deaths for that period. Higher-than-normal death rates are now widespread across the country; of the states with reliable data, only eight show numbers that look similar to recent years.

But comparing recent totals of deaths from all causes can provide a more complete picture of the pandemic’s impact than tracking only deaths of people with confirmed diagnoses. Epidemiologists refer to fatalities in the gap between the observed and normal numbers of deaths as “excess deaths.”

Indeed, in nearly every state with an unusual number of deaths in recent weeks, that number is higher than the state’s reported number of deaths from Covid-19. On our charts, we have marked the number of official coronavirus deaths with red lines, so you can see how they match up with the total number of excess deaths.

Through May 23, excess deaths in the parts of the United States with sufficient data were about 25 percent higher than the official coronavirus fatality count. If this pattern holds for the rest of the country, it would put the current death toll at more than 147,000 people.

Measuring excess deaths is crude because it does not capture all the details of how people died. But many epidemiologists believe it is the best way to measure the impact of the virus in real time. It shows how the virus is altering normal patterns of mortality where it strikes and undermines arguments that it is merely killing vulnerable people who would have died anyway.

 

[thesugar6]

You and @Jim in Scranton both declared COVID was an overblown media hoax back in March and said it was less of a threat than the seasonal flu. It's embarrassing you are still doubling down. You even claimed none of the shutdown measures were warranted unless the death toll from COVID exceeded seasonal flu total for this year. Thank goodness no one in a position of authority was listening to you.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong about the death toll. All of the data indicates the official death toll is significantly lower than the actual number of deaths. You can't spin the excess mortality numbers and they aren't limited to the US. Every country that has been hit hard around the world has had drastically more people than normal dying during the pandemic. You and Jim should admit you've been wrong about everything on this topic and stop embarrassing yourself with these continued desperate efforts to downplay.

Nationwide, at least 102,700 more people have died than usual between March 15 and May 23. That number is more than 20,700 higher than the official count of coronavirus deaths for that period. Higher-than-normal death rates are now widespread across the country; of the states with reliable data, only eight show numbers that look similar to recent years.

But comparing recent totals of deaths from all causes can provide a more complete picture of the pandemic’s impact than tracking only deaths of people with confirmed diagnoses. Epidemiologists refer to fatalities in the gap between the observed and normal numbers of deaths as “excess deaths.”

Indeed, in nearly every state with an unusual number of deaths in recent weeks, that number is higher than the state’s reported number of deaths from Covid-19. On our charts, we have marked the number of official coronavirus deaths with red lines, so you can see how they match up with the total number of excess deaths.

Through May 23, excess deaths in the parts of the United States with sufficient data were about 25 percent higher than the official coronavirus fatality count. If this pattern holds for the rest of the country, it would put the current death toll at more than 147,000 people.

Measuring excess deaths is crude because it does not capture all the details of how people died. But many epidemiologists believe it is the best way to measure the impact of the virus in real time. It shows how the virus is altering normal patterns of mortality where it strikes and undermines arguments that it is merely killing vulnerable people who would have died anyway.

COVID deaths have accounted for 9% of total death this year in the US. Projections with COVID have US deaths increasing by about 3% this year per 100,000, with a normal annual increase of 1.25% without COVID. Your numbers and charts and tweets captured a timeframe when covid was at its peak, not the big picture. You aren’t smart enough to do this math yourself, all you know how to do is copy and post tweets.

 

[Stumpfan]

Once again? I rarely talk politics dumbfvck.

Here’s a chart for you. I’m sure it’s way over your head, but maybe someone can explain it to you.

You made a political statement. Also, why are you showing this graph? This stuff is known.

 

[Stumpfan]

Ehhh. Not exactly. Testing has gone up a lot in the state that are rising. US testing pretty flat although I think today was the highest testing day yet. It’s the states rising that are seeing a lot of testing increases though. Good news is deaths are down. Guess even though nobody is saying it, we must either be treating it better or these test results are faulty. Large percentage of positives are asymptomatic. Has it weakened? Are we treating it better? It has to be something

Wrong. Testing was almost exactly the same a week ago but daily cases went up. The old cases are going up due to increased testing excuse is running out of steam.

 

[Stumpfan]

I don’t even know what this statement means. Nor if you really believe it.

It’s what Jim in Scranton said. The vast majority of the 120,000 would’ve died anyway during this time period.

 

[Stumpfan]

COVID deaths have accounted for 9% of total death this year in the US. Projections with COVID have US deaths increasing by about 3% this year per 100,000, with a normal annual increase of 1.25% without COVID. Your numbers and charts and tweets captured a timeframe when covid was at its peak, not the big picture. You aren’t smart enough to do this math yourself, all you know how to do is copy and post tweets.

Now do April May and June as hardly anybody died of Covid 19 in the first qtr.

 

[gurutas]

It’s what Jim in Scranton said. The vast majority of the 120,000 would’ve died anyway during this time period.

May you never be anyone’s caregiver.

 

[Stumpfan]

May you never be anyone’s caregiver.

Now you have lost me.

 

[Bassman]

give me your thoughts on recruiting rankings

Recruiting rankings aren't a conspiracy, that's just business. Biggest site demands most attention results in most five stars. Pretty simple. Law of unintended consequences. I've seen enough decommits go from 3 stars with AU to "all of a sudden newly minted 4 and 5" stars with Bama, UGA to not see the system at work. That doesn't mean Saban and Smart don't recruit well ... they do ... but the system demands that the recruits for those teams be given extra attention. Again, it's just business.

 

[SCtiger12]

What was percentage of those that died in Vietnam? Iraq? WW2? 9/11? See how dumb that is? If I told you in March that 120,000 would be dead before July, you would’ve said no Fvcking way.

How many died of Covid alone? You can’t tell because there is no way to know. Some of those that died would have died if they caught a bad cold/flu. Some died of something none related but they later discovered the actually had Covid but it wasn’t what killed them.

Simple fact is numbers can be modified to show any point that someone wants to prove.

 

[Stumpfan]

How many died of Covid alone? You can’t tell because there is no way to know. Some of those that died would have died if they caught a bad cold/flu. Some died of something none related but they later discovered the actually had Covid but it wasn’t what killed them.

Simple fact is numbers can be modified to show any point that someone wants to prove.

Lol. The numbers are fake!

 

[SCtiger12]

Lol. The numbers are fake!

Can you prove that every person accounted for in the statistics were because of Covid?

One is counted toward the total and its be on national tv for a month Showing he was killed by the police.

 

[Stumpfan]

Can you prove that every person accounted for in the statistics were because of Covid?

One is counted toward the total and its be on national tv for a month Showing he was killed by the police.

Lol

 

[SCtiger12]

Lol

You proved my point. You can’t prove the statistics are right (or wrong for that matter). But make sure you keep watching the media to have them inform you of your next opinion.

 

[Stumpfan]

You proved my point. You can’t prove the statistics are right (or wrong for that matter). But make sure you keep watching the media to have them inform you of your next opinion.

Dude, you’re a denier. The numbers are being undercounted.