Simply the best article I’ve read yet on Covid…

[Stumpfan]

…It’s required reading for anybody wanting to be up to date on vaccines and the situation here in this country.

Americans Are Losing Sight of the Pandemic Endgame

Entirely eliminating infections is an unrealistic goal, but successful vaccines will avoid the worst outcomes.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[au4life_rz]

The article touches on one of my primary messages, and one of the biggest complaints that I've had with your and other's harmful cheerleading. The article says:

"Many Americans’ unrealistic expectations of the COVID-19 vaccines may have originated with real-world evidence published by the CDC in March, showing that in the first couple of months after vaccination, two doses of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine were 90 percent effective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections, not just disease. People, including many experts, took this to mean that vaccinated people basically couldn’t get infected and couldn’t transmit the virus to others. This set the stage for the CDC to say that fully vaccinated people no longer needed to wear a mask in most situations. Many Americans believed that if they were vaccinated, they couldn’t get COVID-19 and could end all precautions. But longer-term follow-up showed that vaccine effectiveness against infection later dropped to 66 percent. "

I've been complaining about the propaganda, and spun stats and how it might hurt us. It's unfortunate that in their short-sighted, and incorrect approach to get as many as possible to take the vaccine, they gave everyone the impression that the vaccines provided sterilizing immunity, and told them they could start mass gatherings, while also stopping best practices that minimized the spread of COVID. The result? This current surge that we're in. Now you see all kinds of spinning, backtracking and equivocation rather than simply saying, "We made a mistake". It's sad man.

 

[Stumpfan]

The article touches on one of my primary messages, and one of the biggest complaints that I've had with your and other's harmful cheerleading. The article says:

"Many Americans’ unrealistic expectations of the COVID-19 vaccines may have originated with real-world evidence published by the CDC in March, showing that in the first couple of months after vaccination, two doses of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine were 90 percent effective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections, not just disease. People, including many experts, took this to mean that vaccinated people basically couldn’t get infected and couldn’t transmit the virus to others. This set the stage for the CDC to say that fully vaccinated people no longer needed to wear a mask in most situations. Many Americans believed that if they were vaccinated, they couldn’t get COVID-19 and could end all precautions. But longer-term follow-up showed that vaccine effectiveness against infection later dropped to 66 percent. "

I've been complaining about the propaganda, and spun stats and how it might hurt us. It's unfortunate that in their short-sighted, and incorrect approach to get as many as possible to take the vaccine, they gave everyone the impression that the vaccines provided sterilizing immunity, and told them they could start mass gatherings, while also stopping best practices that minimized the spread of COVID. The result? This current surge that we're in. Now you see all kinds of spinning, backtracking and equivocation rather than simply saying, "We made a mistake". It's sad man.

Nope. Delta and waning antibodies changed that. It was always a plus that it protected from infection but wasn’t the main purpose of the vaccines. They are medical miracles. And lol at thinking the current surge is due to the vaccinated. You’re a special kind of stupid.

 

[au4life_rz]

Nope. Delta and waning antibodies changed that. It was always a plus that it protected from infection but wasn’t the main purpose of the vaccines. They are medical miracles. And lol at thinking the current surge is due to the vaccinated. You’re a special kind of stupid.

My entire point arguing with you over the past 6 months is that we should have been EXPECTING these types of blips, kinks and unexpected curveballs. You disagreed, gave nothing but super positive, spun crap reports, while stupidly making definitive statements and giving guarantees about things that we repeatedly told you, there was no way that you could know unless you could see the future.

Now, you're looking stupid yet again. You need a lash for every stupid propaganda piece you linked for the vaccines, and every stupid statement you made that thee vaccines were pretty much perfect and miracles. It didn't take long to expose you and your statements as frauds. Now, you're left making excuses about the exact types of things that Ii told you and the others that we should expect from new technology.

 

[Stumpfan]

My entire point arguing with you over the past 6 months is that we should have been EXPECTING these types of blips, kinks and unexpected curveballs. You disagreed, gave nothing but super positive, spun crap reports, while stupidly making definitive statements and giving guarantees about things that we repeatedly told you, there was no way that you could know unless you could see the future.

Now, you're looking stupid yet again. You need a lash for every stupid propaganda piece you linked for the vaccines, and every stupid statement you made that thee vaccines were pretty much perfect and miracles. It didn't take long to expose you and your statements as frauds. Now, you're left making excuses about the exact types of things that Ii told you and the others that we should expect from new technology.

Nope. You go with the science at the time. Everybody get vaccinated and then we have very low deaths like the flu. Hospitalizations go way down and cases go way down. It’s going to take another 9-12 months to get where we need to be though.

 

[au4life_rz]

Nope. You go with the science at the time. Everybody get vaccinated and then we have very low deaths like the flu. Hospitalizations go way down and cases go way down. It’s going to take another 9-12 months to get where we need to be though.

LOL, but you went with the cooked, baked and faked "science" even though I kept telling you it was obviously spun and baked. And that you couldn't make definitive guaranteed couched as "science" simply because a fake study or tweet was made. You just WOULD NOT listen.

Let me ask you. How has "going with the science" worked for you? You've had multiple times where you were proven to be DEAD WRONG. The "science of the time" is ephemeral, but if we did real science, so many things we were told would not have proven to be wrong, so fast. When will you, and the leading authorities learn??? Going with truth is simply the best way to go.

We aren't debating if hospitalizations go down. No one is debating that. But we're only talking about the number of times you've been dead wrong, and had to shift the goalposts. You can't cop-out using Delta, because I told you and the other dolts on Twitter that you should EXPECT these types of curveballs. Did any of you listen??? Will you learn going forward and stop making definitive statements in situations where WE HAVE NO DATA, so we couldn't possibly be doing solid science. It was all about manipulation to get as many as possible to take the vaccines Stomp.

 

[AUBK]

The article touches on one of my primary messages, and one of the biggest complaints that I've had with your and other's harmful cheerleading. The article says:

"Many Americans’ unrealistic expectations of the COVID-19 vaccines may have originated with real-world evidence published by the CDC in March, showing that in the first couple of months after vaccination, two doses of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine were 90 percent effective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections, not just disease. People, including many experts, took this to mean that vaccinated people basically couldn’t get infected and couldn’t transmit the virus to others. This set the stage for the CDC to say that fully vaccinated people no longer needed to wear a mask in most situations. Many Americans believed that if they were vaccinated, they couldn’t get COVID-19 and could end all precautions. But longer-term follow-up showed that vaccine effectiveness against infection later dropped to 66 percent. "

I've been complaining about the propaganda, and spun stats and how it might hurt us. It's unfortunate that in their short-sighted, and incorrect approach to get as many as possible to take the vaccine, they gave everyone the impression that the vaccines provided sterilizing immunity, and told them they could start mass gatherings, while also stopping best practices that minimized the spread of COVID. The result? This current surge that we're in. Now you see all kinds of spinning, backtracking and equivocation rather than simply saying, "We made a mistake". It's sad man.

Bro. Haha.

I'm sorry you've been consuming bad information. This lady ain't talking about anything but fox News and the crazies screaming the vaccine doesn't work..

You should maybe talk to your doctor and encourage everyone to go that route. I don't know a single doctor that gave a guarantee. You never did share one with me either.

 

[Stumpfan]

LOL, but you went with the cooked, baked and faked "science" even though I kept telling you it was obviously spun and baked. And that you couldn't make definitive guaranteed couched as "science" simply because a fake study or tweet was made. You just WOULD NOT listen.

Let me ask you. How has "going with the science" worked for you? You've had multiple times where you were proven to be DEAD WRONG. The "science of the time" is ephemeral, but if we did real science, so many things we were told would not have proven to be wrong, so fast. When will you, and the leading authorities learn??? Going with truth is simply the best way to go.

We aren't debating if hospitalizations go down. No one is debating that. But we're only talking about the number of times you've been dead wrong, and had to shift the goalposts. You can't cop-out using Delta, because I told you and the other dolts on Twitter that you should EXPECT these types of curveballs. Did any of you listen??? Will you learn going forward and stop making definitive statements in situations where WE HAVE NO DATA, so we couldn't possibly be doing solid science. It was all about manipulation to get as many as possible to take the vaccines Stomp.

You’re a conspiracy guy. I get it. I don’t make it past your first two lines but keep pecking away. lol

 

[au4life_rz]

You’re a conspiracy guy. I get it. I don’t make it past your first two lines but keep pecking away. lol

It's no problem at all. Hundreds of others participating in the thread see CLEARLY what's going on, and we're still exchanging important, and helpful information with each other.

I was just asking you how has "going with the science" worked for you? When will you, and the leading authorities learn that going with truth is simply the best way to go. You've both been burned severely and have changed the goal posts numerous times. Each time it happens, they lose more people and risk more deaths. It's irresponsible and hurting the cause.

 

[HONKifUvCOACHED4BAMA]

…It’s required reading for anybody wanting to be up to date on vaccines and the situation here in this country.

Americans Are Losing Sight of the Pandemic Endgame

Entirely eliminating infections is an unrealistic goal, but successful vaccines will avoid the worst outcomes.

www.theatlantic.com

Israeli Study: Natural Immunity Is 13x Stronger Than Pfizer COVID Shots

A new study has found that people with natural immunity to COVID could be 13 times less likely to contract the virus than those who were only vaccinated.

thefederalist.com

 

[Stumpfan]

It's no problem at all. Hundreds of others participating in the thread see CLEARLY what's going on, and we're still exchanging important, and helpful information with each other.

I was just asking you how has "going with the science" worked for you? When will you, and the leading authorities learn that going with truth is simply the best way to go. You've both been burned severely and have changed the goal posts numerous times. Each time it happens, they lose more people and risk more deaths. It's irresponsible and hurting the cause.

It worked great. I said the vaccines are miracles. I was right. I said we will be past this once we get vaccinated. We will be. It will be the flu.

 

[Stumpfan]

Israeli Study: Natural Immunity Is 13x Stronger Than Pfizer COVID Shots

A new study has found that people with natural immunity to COVID could be 13 times less likely to contract the virus than those who were only vaccinated.

thefederalist.com

Just posted a UK study showing the opposite that came out. Also, see Trump’s head of the fda:

 

[TBFan]

Dr. Makary Says Natural Immunity Is More Effective Then Vaccine Immunity

 

[HONKifUvCOACHED4BAMA]

Dr. Makary Says Natural Immunity Is More Effective Then Vaccine Immunity

Lookouwt!!!!
The “GET VACCINATED NO MATTER WHAT!” mow-rahns are about to go apeshite over this one!!

 

[HONKifUvCOACHED4BAMA]

“It appears that natural immunity is better against the Delta variant. When you get infected with COVID, your body’s immune system develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus,” Makary said. “Not just the slight protein that the vaccines gives you, but the entire surface. And so you get a more diverse antibody portfolio in your system.”

 

[au4life_rz]

Bro. Haha.

I'm sorry you've been consuming bad information. This lady ain't talking about anything but fox News and the crazies screaming the vaccine doesn't work..

You should maybe talk to your doctor and encourage everyone to go that route. I don't know a single doctor that gave a guarantee. You never did share one with me either.

There were many doctors, scientists and other media sources essentially saying and/or implying that the vaccinations would provide sterilizing immunity. Dr. Monica Gandhi is one of the leading Vaxx-Drones out there spreading misinformation, and propaganda. She's been wrong several times, and she just uses the Stomp technique of flinching, changing the goalposts and saying things such as, "it's always been about reducing severe illness and death. We never said it would eliminate transmission" etc.

She's the one who popularized all of the "Oh, it's only dead viruses in the nose" whenever fully vaccinated folks would test positive. I'm pretty sure that's where Stomp got that stupid theory and tried to beat me over the head with it, doubling and tripling down until real science finally proved me to be right about that particular item. If you Google, (and for some things, you may have to use a different search engine), you can go find any of this stuff.

 

[au4life_rz]

Bro. Haha.

I'm sorry you've been consuming bad information. This lady ain't talking about anything but fox News and the crazies screaming the vaccine doesn't work..

You should maybe talk to your doctor and encourage everyone to go that route. I don't know a single doctor that gave a guarantee. You never did share one with me either.

There were also TONS of articles in Forbes, Newsweek, almost every major media channel, that said or strongly implied that the new vaccines were SO good, that they effectively supplied sterilizing immunity. The entire message from the narrative was, "The vaccines are 99.x% effective, and if you go ahead and take them, we can reach herd immunity and get back to normal". All of that implies sterilizing immunity, and gave the impression that once you were vaccinated, you were pretty much invincible.

I'm very glad that the vaccines are effective at reducing severe illness and death, but I do fear that we might be short-bus'ing yet another scientific issue by being too myopic, and not looking at enough of the bigger picture. I humbly believe that we could be trading a great specific and "localized" response, for a better general/overall response to the entire FAMILY of COVID viruses.

New Data on COVID-19 Transmission by Vaccinated Individuals | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

While new data show that vaccinated people can carry high viral loads of SARS-CoV-2, vaccines still prevent the worst outcomes from COVID-19.

www.jhsph.edu

(Excerpted question and answer from the article)

Question: Can we say with any degree of certainty that vaccinated people are unlikely to spread COVID to unvaccinated individuals?

Answer: "The emerging data confirms what many of us thought would be the case—that not only do the vaccines stop symptomatic COVID, but they also make it highly unlikely that someone can even be infected at all.

I think the preponderance of the evidence supports the FACT that vaccinated individuals are not able to spread the virus."

 

[AUBK]

There were many doctors, scientists and other media sources essentially saying and/or implying that the vaccinations would provide sterilizing immunity. Dr. Monica Gandhi is one of the leading Vaxx-Drones out there spreading misinformation, and propaganda. She's been wrong several times, and she just uses the Stomp technique of flinching, changing the goalposts and saying things such as, "it's always been about reducing severe illness and death. We never said it would eliminate transmission" etc.

She's the one who popularized all of the "Oh, it's only dead viruses in the nose" whenever fully vaccinated folks would test positive. I'm pretty sure that's where Stomp got that stupid theory and tried to beat me over the head with it, doubling and tripling down until real science finally proved me to be right about that particular item. If you Google, (and for some things, you may have to use a different search engine), you can go find any of this stuff.

View embedded media

So I need to follow this obscure Twitter doc to receive the misinformation you've been screaming about?

Interesting...

There were also TONS of articles in Forbes, Newsweek, almost every major media channel, that said or strongly implied that the new vaccines were SO good, that they effectively supplied sterilizing immunity. The entire message from the narrative was, "The vaccines are 99.x% effective, and if you go ahead and take them, we can reach herd immunity and get back to normal". All of that implies sterilizing immunity, and gave the impression that once you were vaccinated, you were pretty much invincible.

I'm very glad that the vaccines are effective at reducing severe illness and death, but I do fear that we might be short-bus'ing yet another scientific issue by being too myopic, and not looking at enough of the bigger picture. I humbly believe that we could be trading a great specific and "localized" response, for a better general/overall response to the entire FAMILY of COVID viruses.

New Data on COVID-19 Transmission by Vaccinated Individuals | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

While new data show that vaccinated people can carry high viral loads of SARS-CoV-2, vaccines still prevent the worst outcomes from COVID-19.

www.jhsph.edu

(Excerpted question and answer from the article)

Question: Can we say with any degree of certainty that vaccinated people are unlikely to spread COVID to unvaccinated individuals?

Answer: "The emerging data confirms what many of us thought would be the case—that not only do the vaccines stop symptomatic COVID, but they also make it highly unlikely that someone can even be infected at all.

I think the preponderance of the evidence supports the FACT that vaccinated individuals are not able to spread the virus."

So the vaccine is doing exactly what they said...

You're doing a very poor job of providing support for your argument..

You have me genuinely perplexed.

Just because someone cited early data that was at the time correct, doesn't mean that it can't be updated.

If everyone gets the vaccine, we all get back to normal.. Fact.

If people like you push hesitancy and continue throwing around pseudo anti vax shit, our communities will continue to suffer... Fact.

 

[au4life_rz]

“It appears that natural immunity is better against the Delta variant. When you get infected with COVID, your body’s immune system develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus,” Makary said. “Not just the slight protein that the vaccines gives you, but the entire surface. And so you get a more diverse antibody portfolio in your system.”

I've been thinking about this for many months, and over the past several months, I've been alluding to this over and again.

IMHO, my two cents of unqualified opinion is that this will need to be managed. I've already thought of some ways, but if we're going to move forward and continue using mRNA vaccines, we'll likely have to make some changes. Same with the sub-unit protein vaccinations.

I believe they both have the ability to generate GREAT specific responses, but potentially at the cost of better, overall/general protection from the entire FAMILY of a particular pathogen.

 

[au4life_rz]

So I need to follow this obscure Twitter doc to receive the misinformation you've been screaming about?

Interesting...

So the vaccine is doing exactly what they said...

You're doing a very poor job of providing support for your argument..

You have me genuinely perplexed.

Just because someone cited early data that was at the time correct, doesn't mean that it can't be updated.

If everyone gets the vaccine, we all get back to normal.. Fact.

If people like you push hesitancy and continue throwing around pseudo anti vax shit, our communities will continue to suffer... Fact.

She's not obscure at all. She's all over the place, and she and other leading doctors have millions of followers altogether. You combine that with all of the major publications pushing the same message, combined with really bad science, and it's how we got in this current surge, despite nobody peons like me, jumping, screaming and waving my arms that we had a potentially HUGE blindspot and hidden source of spread that might lead to a surge. I mean, I was warning everyone months ago. Surely if I could see that given my understanding of the human immune system and other data available, you'd hope the "experts", leading scientists, researchers and doctors would have picked up on the possibilities. It's no excuse to say "the data at that time indicated it was correct". We're talking about January through July. I have numerous posts on this very board where I was soundly ridiculed, where I pointed out that their science and data was wrong.

Everything was CLEARLY implying that everyone who was fully vaccinated was bullet-proof, and could "get back to normal" and stop all the best practices that minimize the spread of COVID. Public policy was changed under the guise of "following the science", and automatic entry into mass spreading events was implemented for those fully vaccinated. They were encouraged to stop wearing masks, social-distancing, and to start conducting mass spreading events and family get-togethers etc.. I've not pushed "hesitancy". It's as if a big tobacco company was saying, "Hey, nothing's wrong with smoking cigarettes, as a matter of fact, studies and data shows that it's a health tonic", and someone else is running around, waving their arms and pointing out potential dangers, and they are being accused of hurting the community.

But bottom line, I'm picking up what you're putting down, and I'll move on and discuss it with someone who's interested. You seem to be sharp enough to read that excerpt, read the article, and fully understand the psychology and manipulation. I believe you know full well what was being said, and why it was being said. Desite that, it seems that you care more about "winning", (i.e. the harmful partisan debate behavior), so I'll simply say, "You won". Move on and continue to operate in delusion if you'd like, and thanks for engaging to the degree that you did. You won the internet battle.

 

[HONKifUvCOACHED4BAMA]

I've been thinking about this for many months, and over the past several months, I've been alluding to this over and again.

IMHO, my two cents of unqualified opinion is that this will need to be managed. I've already thought of some ways, but if we're going to move forward and continue using mRNA vaccines, we'll likely have to make some changes. Same with the sub-unit protein vaccinations.

I believe they both have the ability to generate GREAT specific responses, but potentially at the cost of better, overall/general protection from the entire FAMILY of a particular pathogen.

Excellent post and live how it’s tempered with, “I believe” and “my opinion”. It’s too bad all these know-it-all lawyers can’t follow your lead, take a chill pill and realize they don’t know shite about this virus.
“GET VACCINATED” is turning out to be a disaster.

 

[RhoadsAU]

That was a good read Stump and explains why I got Covid but it didnt cause severe disease

 

[Stumpfan]

Excellent post and live how it’s tempered with, “I believe” and “my opinion”. It’s too bad all these know-it-all lawyers can’t follow your lead, take a chill pill and realize they don’t know shite about this virus.
“GET VACCINATED” is turning out to be a disaster.

Lol. Getting vaccinated is what’s saving us. See who are dying and who are in the hospital in this country, dumbass. We will have about 250 million vaccinated by this time next year.