7 NFL head coach jobs opened this year, 0 African Americans have been hired yet

bojackcaddy

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Apr 14, 2008
31,889
6,747
113
There is a perception that black professionals are not as trustworthy as white professionals to hold elite positions. The perception is the problem.
If the perception was equal there would be no need for the nonsense.
What evidence do you have to support that black head coaches are more successful than white head coaches?
 

orientalthunder

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2012
17,062
17,736
113
A not-insignificant portion of NFL ownership and management right now is through inheritance and marriage.
I can see this happening for ownership but give me an example of how management positions are inherited. I honestly don’t know enough about the nfl so I’m just curious.

Either way it doesn’t change anything. They still hire additional people to make these decisions and 99.9% of the decisions made by a franchise revolves around making more money which means they need to win championships. 0.1% of decisions are to placate the mob.

Checking diversity boxes is for weak minded people who see everything as unfair regardless of facts and numbers. The people who push equity dont actually want it because they thats one less windmill to chase and those windmills equal millions upon millions of dollars and re-elections.

When it comes to the point where hard work and the right circumstances allow someone to get further ahead than others attempting the same, goals posts are moved and definitions are changed so they can keep chasing the imaginary dragons.
 

S-Town Enthusiast

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Dec 1, 2017
22,391
59,377
113
Miami
I can see this happening for ownership but give me an example of how management positions are inherited. I honestly don’t know enough about the nfl so I’m just curious.

Either way it doesn’t change anything. They still hire additional people to make these decisions and 99.9% of the decisions made by a franchise revolves around making more money which means they need to win championships. 0.1% of decisions are to placate the mob.

Checking diversity boxes is for weak minded people who see everything as unfair regardless of facts and numbers. The people who push equity dont actually want it because they thats one less windmill to chase and those windmills equal millions upon millions of dollars and re-elections.

When it comes to the point where hard work and the right circumstances allow someone to get further ahead than others attempting the same, goals posts are moved and definitions are changed so they can keep chasing the imaginary dragons.
The bottom line is that I do not believe that they are doing a good job identifying potential talent in the coaching ranks. People give these folks a whole lot of credit for being "successful business people" with "a lot at stake".

I don't think I've advocated for quotas at all. I just think a whole lot of credit is given to people who exist inside of their own bubbles of incompetence sometimes.

I can't tell you how many times I've read "this guy has the endorsement of X" and you go look and "X" hasn't done anything successful in the NFL in over a decade.
 

OneWing

All-American
Gold Member
Jan 23, 2015
9,106
9,676
113
I would say interviewing poorly is a good reason not to hire someone.
The bottom line is that I do not believe that they are doing a good job identifying potential talent in the coaching ranks. People give these folks a whole lot of credit for being "successful business people" with "a lot at stake".

I don't think I've advocated for quotas at all. I just think a whole lot of credit is given to people who exist inside of their own bubbles of incompetence sometimes.

I can't tell you how many times I've read "this guy has the endorsement of X" and you go look and "X" hasn't done anything successful in the NFL in over a decade.
I think this is a really good point. We shouldn't take it as a given that just because someone owns an NFL team that they have particularly good judgement. Dan Snyder is a tremendous dipshit, Irsay the owner for the Colts was at one point just completely beserk on cocaine, strippers, alcohol and had to go to rehab, Stephen Jones is just daddy's boy for the Cowboys. Coaches get fired after only a single year, and there are so many retread hires.

Also, there has been some discussion of interviews. I am not saying this is what Bienemy did, because I do not know him. However, one big problem is that white dudes are around these ownership types, they're accultured on how to talk to this guy. It's how some of us on this board can talk enough football sometimes that people think we played it a mediocre-ish level when in reality we just swim in these waters more often. When you have African American coaches, they're often shut out of these meetings. Thus, they're much less fluent in how to speak with ownership. It's about the pipeline. However, I think that it is extremely presumptuous to think that a coach in Bienemy who has coached the best player in football, who has won a Super Bowl, who calls plays, is just "not polished enough," to be an NFL head coach.
 

orientalthunder

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2012
17,062
17,736
113
The bottom line is that I do not believe that they are doing a good job identifying potential talent in the coaching ranks. People give these folks a whole lot of credit for being "successful business people" with "a lot at stake".

I don't think I've advocated for quotas at all. I just think a whole lot of credit is given to people who exist inside of their own bubbles of incompetence sometimes.

I can't tell you how many times I've read "this guy has the endorsement of X" and you go look and "X" hasn't done anything successful in the NFL in over a decade.
The same can be said about college. The fact is there is much more than just Xs and Os that makes a good coach. Luck and timing are almost just as important. Very few can put it all together and there is no way to know who that might be. But hiring someone with a connection to another coach who has consistently put the Xs and Os together and gotten some good breaks is an attempt to quantify and cash in on some of those more intangible parts of coaching. I don’t see how skin pigment has anything to do with any of it.
 

Bruce4Prez

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 29, 2016
1,331
1,083
113
Lol skin color literally shouldn’t play ANY role in whether someone is hired or fired. The problem is for black people it does. Again, because of perception.
The perception of black people is not a good one. Which means black people are behind the eight-ball before they even get started.
 

Bruce4Prez

All-American
Gold Member
Nov 29, 2016
1,331
1,083
113
Above average black men do not get hired at the same rate as above average white men for elite positions. If a black man wants an elite position, he must demonstrate exceptional ability. This standard is not necessarily the same for white men.
 
  • Like
Reactions: au4life_rz

TridentAU

Redshirt Freshman
Silver Member
Dec 8, 2020
155
338
63
My background is Asian (Vietnamese). I came to America with my brother and sister during the Vietnam war. I never understood this mindset of hiring an individual based on race instead of merit. I have always avoided these types of men that use the language "my people" or " as a black man" or "as a asian man." I had many friends (mainly minorities) growing up in Alabama tell me this country would keep me down because I "looked different." I quickly found that those friends only saw race instead of taking accountability for themselves. I didnt start speaking English until I arrived here at age 13. I now have my own business and employees from various backgrounds but not once, did I ever hire anyone with ethnicity being a determinate. The fact that this is a narrative that seems to dominate the headlines in this country still disappoints me. Some people may look at me and see an asian man, but I have always referred to myself as a American and I'm so grateful and proud to be one. Any individual that plays football for a school or professionally that thinks they cant relate to their coach because he doesn't look like them has their self-worth and life priorities built from the wrong foundation.
Not that it matters but người Thượng? Just a history buff and dad served over there
 

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
28,520
7,758
113
Atlanta, (Originally from B'ham)
First things first: Need more white dudes playing defensive back.

The injustice is sickening.
One small/subtle, but very important difference. Do you interview for a defensive back position, or do you compete for it???

One thing you tried to compare is based on PERCEPTION so it's awarded based on subjective criteria such as how someone FEELS, (to a large degree), while the other is based on head to head competition, (i.e. how you actually perform). That's a pretty important difference wouldn't you agree?


------

@may may34, @HAL-9000, @WarTigers10, @mkp_81, @MILLERMAN, @TheValleyTiger, @copper4eva,
@gregers05, @NathanArizona, @obatiger, @Crouching Tiger, @atlTiger2012, @JLEAGLE07,
@zhawn9955, @jacksontyger, @Hobbes227, @HondaTiger, @Eagle, @WarDamnPeen, @I BEG FOR LIKES,
@AUzad, @Ontovictory, @alphatiger08, @tigerswin17, @AF Tiger in VA, @Knotted Shorts,
@RESIDENT PRUDE, @StatsMatter, @jjchiare, @Mike7677, @PocketWatch, @WillyV3, @TheNightmanCometh, @WDamn, @S T E R L I N G, @NashTiger in WilCo, @CorinthTiger
 
Last edited:

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
28,520
7,758
113
Atlanta, (Originally from B'ham)
Should teams have to hire based on skin color or is it ok to just hire who they want? I don’t think in 2021 teams are bypassing minority candidates simply because they are minorities...but others may disagree.

Also, you should have started this thread in Dear Diary or PoRe because it ain’t gonna last..
I'm honestly conflicted on these types of things. We've been through the phase where they kind of forced folks to hire the Tony Dungy's, Marvin Lewis's, and Mike Tomlin's of the world, and it's probably not right to continue forcing it at this point. When someone owns a company, business or team, they really do have the right to hire whomever they want or FEEL is best for the job, even if that means we don't truly have a level playing field.

Unfortunately, it pretty much ensures that there will be an uneven playing field, and again, unfortunately, that's just kind of how life works. You could have two people with identical resumes, accomplishments and abilities, but human being are just imperfect, and most will FEEL more comfortable hiring someone from the same cultural, philosophical and ostensible background as them. I just really don't know how to fix this without forcing someone to hire someone they don't want, (and that's just not right, and leads to other nasty ramifications down the line).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: S-Town Enthusiast

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
28,520
7,758
113
Atlanta, (Originally from B'ham)
if the players really cared about this subject then they would sit out the championship games this weekend which could lead to the delay or cancellation of the Super Bowl. If they don’t really care then they will just shut up and dribble like the NBA did and go on being millionaires from playing a child’s sport.
That's a rather callous, and simplistic take on things.

Shut up, play ball, and get your small fraction of the millions you generate, (while we take the lion's share of the pie and make hundreds of millions).
 

thmaginnis

Redshirt Freshman
Gold Member
Oct 10, 2003
112
124
43
Depends on the organizational goals. Is it to use the organization to forward a societal agenda, make more money, or to win championships. They are not mutually exclusive but I think making more money is the goal of most. And I think winning championships helps achieve that goal more than the PR marketing advantages of pushing a social agenda. That being said, I would think this is just organizations seeing no currently available AA candidates that could help them win championships more than white ones. They certainly may be wrong in their assessments but nobody is perfect. Who knows. These are usually smart I guess there could be some old racists owners running out the clock but I don’t think this is the issue in most cases.
 
  • Like
Reactions: plw0002

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
28,520
7,758
113
Atlanta, (Originally from B'ham)
The next generation of great black head coaches is still under 40. I expect to see the pace of AA head coaching hires take off in the next 15 years.
You may be correct, but I remember folks saying similar things 15-20 years ago, but it still hasn't exactly taken off.
 
Last edited:

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
28,520
7,758
113
Atlanta, (Originally from B'ham)
I'm going to say something controversial. You want more black head coaches hired? Well maybe the ones that do get hired start winning somewhere.
You just pretty much confirmed @Bruce4Prez 's comment that if you're black, "being good" isn't good enough. You have to be BETTER. Perpetual losers get recycled in the NFL like plastic bottles, but if you're black, you likely won't get the multiple chances based off of a mediocre to sub-par resume.

I wish that every ground breaking racial minority could perform at the highest level, because unfortunately, there are too many folks out there with your mentality. If a minority is hired, and they aren't super top notch good, they and other minorities won't get a fair shake when the next opportunity comes along.

That's what happens when you paint with a broad brush and ASSume the worst based off of the performance of others, instead of evaluating each individual on his own merits, (i.e. establishing a truly level playing field).
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChucktownTiger05

stutsman23

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
Aug 7, 2006
32,945
66,716
113
Atlanta
I'm honestly conflicted on these types of things. We've been through the phase where they kind of forced folks to hire the Tony Dungy's, Marvin Lewis's, and Mike Tomlin's of the world, and it's probably not right to continue forcing it at this point. When someone owns a company, business or team, they really do have the right to hire whomever they want or FEEL is best for the job.

Unfortunately, this pretty much ensures that there will be an uneven playing field, and again, unfortunately, that's just kind of how life works. You could have two people with identical resumes, accomplishments and abilities, but human being are just imperfect, and most will FEEL more comfortable hiring someone from the same cultural, philosophical and ostensible background as them. I just really don't know how to fix this without forcing someone to hire someone they don't want, (and that's just not right, and leads to other nasty ramifications down the line).
Arthur Blank just hired a black GM. Ryan Clark is often discussed when it comes to open GM positions. I think more minority GMs and front office guys will likely lead to more minority coaching hires, but that's certainly no guarantee. While I agree that the small number of black head coaches is an interesting topic to discuss, I don't think that the skin color is part of the decision making process. There are a few qualified candidates out there right now IMO, especially Bieniemy, but the pool of white candidates at the moment is just much larger. IMO, a lot of that has to do with the fact that many potential great football minds that are black tend to have lengthier playing careers and aren't focused on coaching til later in life or they aren't interested in starting the coaching grind immediately after their playing career ends. I think this will begin to change a little with the number of injuries and people deciding to call it quits early for health reasons, etc. but currently there isn't nearly as big a pool of minority candidates with lengthy coaching resumes. I also think coaching wasn't always quite as attractive of a career choice, but with the money thrown around these days it'll certainly attract more interest from people of all backgrounds and potentially lead to more younger black men choosing to turn to coaching when they're young instead of chasing their playing dreams and bouncing around practice squads or the CFL. Just my thoughts, but I've certainly never been involved in an NFL coaching hire and could be way off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CJ3131

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
28,520
7,758
113
Atlanta, (Originally from B'ham)
Only answer is its Racism? YGTBFKM. Maybe they are not qualified, or sucked in previous position, which is why they were fired. People that blame everything on racism, is part of the problem, IMO. AA have more advantages than any other race within the United States. If 2 candidates are identical in experience, educations, resumes, interviews, the AA will get the job 9 out of 10 times.
Perception, and various websites and race pimps from leaning news organizations may tell you that, but reality based on history, says otherwise. While I FIRMLY believe that no one should AUTOMATICALLY assume every decision is based on racism, your statement is really far off.

Do you really believe that if several candidates walk into an NFL office, and they all have equivalent qualifications, the black person will walk out with the job? There may be a very small few tree hugging types that would do that, but overall, the majority of the hiring population WILL NOT. We have a very large data sample on this one.
 
Last edited:

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
28,520
7,758
113
Atlanta, (Originally from B'ham)
Lynn wanted to start Tyrod Taylor over Locks of Love. I'm not sure he needs another shot right now.
Are you really faulting that decision? There are many NFL personnel who would have favored the experienced veteran to start off the season, but there weren't a lot of them who knew that kid would tear it up the way he did this past season.

If you want to slam him and magnify his failure, you should pick better examples if you want to cast him as a bad decision-maker.
 

GusDoubleDribbled

All-SEC
Gold Member
Dec 13, 2020
687
964
93
Are you really faulting that decision? There are many NFL personnel who would have favored the experienced veteran to start off the season, but there weren't a lot of them who knew that kid would tear it up the way he did this past season.

If you want to slam him and magnify his failure, you should pick better examples if you want to cast him as a bad decision-maker.
Not to mention he got Tyrod to the Pro Bowl as his OC... of course he was going to start him over a rookie who had played an offense that translates as poorly as Gus' to the NFL
 
  • Like
Reactions: au4life_rz

johntodd

All-American
Gold Member
Jan 15, 2004
2,128
2,914
113
I'm not sure if "most" O-linemen are white. However, how many black O-linemen get a shot to play center, (i.e. the QB and brains of the O-line), and how many blacks try out as kickers??? How many white kids get a shot at RB and CB???
I was just answering the question with correct answers. I didn‘t give explanations of why.
 

johntodd

All-American
Gold Member
Jan 15, 2004
2,128
2,914
113
I'm not sure if "most" O-linemen are white. However, how many black O-linemen get a shot to play center, (i.e. the QB and brains of the O-line), and how many blacks try out as kickers??? How many white kids get a shot at RB and CB???
Why are there fewer black kickers?
 

johntodd

All-American
Gold Member
Jan 15, 2004
2,128
2,914
113
No, you didn't answer the question. I asked the other gentleman, what positions he felt "whites were better", (which is what he said). I didn't ask for positions that he felt there were more white players playing.
ok Whites are better at Oline positions, especially centers. White kickers are much better. Backup quarterbacks seem to excel at holding clipboards. White punters are better.
 

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
28,520
7,758
113
Atlanta, (Originally from B'ham)
ok Whites are better at Oline positions, especially centers. White kickers are much better. Backup quarterbacks seem to excel at holding clipboards. White punters are better.
You are entitled to your opinion, (just as owners are entitled to hire whomever they please), but you haven't shared anything to support that opinion.

In order for your opinion to be true, you'd have to show that for equal numbers of players trying out for those positions, but a certain segment proved themselves to perform better than other segments, (where every segment had equal instruction, coaching, training, nutrition etc.).

That's why the QB position didn't include/wouldn't allow blacks for so long, (i.e. an uneven playing field). It's because folks flat didn't want blacks playing QB, so everyone else ASSumed that whites were better simply because every QB they saw on every team was white. So even years afterward, blacks never really got a chance to prove what they could do because the candidate pool was always reduced to whites only. Same deal with "QB's of the O-line", (centers), for the most part. A lot of blacks automatically get moved to OG before they're even trained, groomed and/or given a fair shot to see what they can do.
 
Last edited:

AUbrey

All-American
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
9,447
8,641
113
That's a rather callous, and simplistic take on things.

Shut up, play ball, and get your small fraction of the millions you generate, (while we take the lion's share of the pie and make hundreds of millions).
Boo hoo someone makes more money than me.....typical of your type.
 

au4life_rz

First Round Draft Pick
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
28,520
7,758
113
Atlanta, (Originally from B'ham)
Boo hoo someone makes more money than me.....typical of your type.
No boo-hoo'ing whatsoever, but you offered a VERY shaky point that others have called you out on. Ironically, your reply could be seen as a "type" of boo-hooing.

You may feel that it's okay to devalue someone, and their opinion, simply because they make a lot of money or because they are employees etc. I was simply pointing out that they are doing the heavy lifting by GENERATING the billions that are produced, so it might be a tad short-sighted for you to feel they should turn off their brains, and act like dumb, ill-informed jocks who don't have reasonable takes on politics, science, social issues etc.

"Just shut up and entertain me boy" or "just go shuck, buck and clown for this dollar", is not the way to go about valuing or properly considering other people's opinions. Now, it's altogether another thing if you are disqualifying their opinions because they are erroneous and/or ill-informed, (like the haut take you offered).
 

ChucktownTiger05

All-American
Gold Member
Dec 2, 2008
9,581
6,687
113
Charleston, SC
My background is Asian (Vietnamese). I came to America with my brother and sister during the Vietnam war. I never understood this mindset of hiring an individual based on race instead of merit. I have always avoided these types of men that use the language "my people" or " as a black man" or "as a asian man." I had many friends (mainly minorities) growing up in Alabama tell me this country would keep me down because I "looked different." I quickly found that those friends only saw race instead of taking accountability for themselves. I didnt start speaking English until I arrived here at age 13. I now have my own business and employees from various backgrounds but not once, did I ever hire anyone with ethnicity being a determinate. The fact that this is a narrative that seems to dominate the headlines in this country still disappoints me. Some people may look at me and see an asian man, but I have always referred to myself as a American and I'm so grateful and proud to be one. Any individual that plays football for a school or professionally that thinks they cant relate to their coach because he doesn't look like them has their self-worth and life priorities built from the wrong foundation.
This can’t be said enough. To my knowledge, the US is the only place that labels everyone based on their origins/race (African American, Asian American, etc)... why? Why can’t we just be Americans? Why do we feel the need to put everyone into their own separate boxes? We are so hypersensitive about race these days and that’s what is holding us back. The sooner we start hiring the best person for the job, not because they check a box, the faster this becomes a non issue. I care about the race of a head coach just as much as I care about the race of the players on the field, court, whatever. I mean, nobody GAS if 5 black guys start a basketball game, nobody cares if the starting 11 on either side of the ball consists of all black players in a football game (I certainly don’t), but every year, all we hear about is the lack of black coaches. I mean, is it nuts that Bieniemy wasn’t hired as a HC, fvck yeah it is. But if the owners choose to hire someone else, that’s up to them and they have to suffer the consequences if who they hired doesn’t work out.
 

ChucktownTiger05

All-American
Gold Member
Dec 2, 2008
9,581
6,687
113
Charleston, SC
I can assure you all if Allen Greene wasn’t an exceptional speaker/interviewer he wouldn’t have gotten an opportunity at Auburn.

If Jay Jacobs was black he would not have lasted as long at AU as he did. If Gus Malzahn was black he would not have lasted as long as he did.

Point being. When you’re black being good enough is not good enough. One must be better than. Anyone with good sense can understand this.
I definitely agree with this. I was listening to ESPN radio this week and they brought up a good point; unfortunately, black coaches typically only get one chance as a HC while white coaches with awful records get second and sometimes third chances as a HC.
 

ChucktownTiger05

All-American
Gold Member
Dec 2, 2008
9,581
6,687
113
Charleston, SC
There is a perception that black professionals are not as trustworthy as white professionals to hold elite positions. The perception is the problem.
If the perception was equal there would be no need for the nonsense.
While I agree that your statement is unfortunately true, I honestly think that the only way that will significantly change is when the generation that grew up during segregation and the generation after that dies out. I think the younger generations don’t let race get in the way nearly as much as the older ones.
 

johntodd

All-American
Gold Member
Jan 15, 2004
2,128
2,914
113
You are entitled to your opinion, (just as owners are entitled to hire whomever they please), but you haven't shared anything to support that opinion.

In order for your opinion to be true, you'd have to show that for equal numbers of players trying out for those positions, a certain segment proved themselves to perform better than another segment. That's why the QB position didn't include/wouldn't allow blacks for so long, (i.e. an uneven playing field). It's because folks ASSumed that whites were better, so blacks never really got a chance as the candidate pool was always reduced to whites. Same deal with QB's of the O-line, (centers), for the most part. A lot of blacks automatically get moved to OG before they're even trained, groomed and/or given a fair shot.
So why do you “assume” blacks are better at running back and corner? Using the criteria above, explain the difference.
 

Double Dees

READY FOR A FIGHT
Gold Member
Aug 16, 2018
2,277
3,363
113
While I agree that your statement is unfortunately true, I honestly think that the only way that will significantly change is when the generation that grew up during segregation and the generation after that dies out. I think the younger generations don’t let race get in the way nearly as much as the older ones.
Although it is the younger generation that is now fighting to segregate by wanting their own national anthem, their own flag, etc. For the country to step forward we have to stop labeling everyone by their race. That starts with the govt, as all government forms ask what is your race. WGAF what the race is, it should be are you a legal american citizen, that's it.

Let me know when the govt stops giving minorities and disabled priority in govt contract process. Let me know when there is a "White scholarship, given to the most outstanding "white" student". Also, just my opinion, but calling blacks african americans is rather Petty. There is very few black americans that actually migrated from Africa. If they were born here legally, they are american. Don't no one call me an Italian American, or european american, so why call them african americans, and asian americans. I am pretty well right leaning, it let's call it like it is, the govt and media are bolstering the whole race issue in this country. Other cou tries are massively trying to use it against us, to keep in fighting. America is not a sexists country either. I am a world traveler, and if men in american treated women like the men in arabic countries do, they would be in prison. America is one of the most fair and I partial countries in the world, we just can't see the forest because of all the trees.
 

Latest posts